buy or avoid 350SD's? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

oldsouth · #31 12-23-2006, 01:36 PM

If you are the type that takes repairs to the Mercedes dealer, I would say stay away from the 140 series cars. If you are a do-it-yourselfer, they are a great value in the used car market at this time. The '95 S350 list in the upper 60,000 range and are going for about 15K now.

JimmyL · #32 12-23-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ched454

if the motor goes, it goes. In the meantime, I look forward to enjoying the ride and receiving the 500K kilometer mileage award within the next four years or so. Hope you're still around......Jimmy.

Hey, I'm pulling for you Ched! Promise.
And your ride is 100x nicer than mine, I would just be living in constant fear. I can't afford one of those cars, and if I scraped it together, then I certainly couldn't pay for the repair if ever needed.
I'm just a low-budget W123 guy..............

Hit Man X · #33 12-23-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncof300d

Sorry, that was a typo, I meant W124 not W123. To me a W140 is tempting, but I know someone whose father inlaw has a W140 diesel he had spent over $18,000 in repairs. That is what keeps me away from a W140. I really want to have confidence in purchasing a newer Merc, but accounts like this and my own E300 keep me away. My wife is looking for the Accord diesel when it arrives.

Oh okay.

W140s are great if maintained well. I'm going to wait until they really bottom out here within the next 4-7 years before I pick one up.

Hatterasguy · #34 12-23-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncof300d

Sorry, that was a typo, I meant W124 not W123. To me a W140 is tempting, but I know someone whose father inlaw has a W140 diesel he had spent over $18,000 in repairs. That is what keeps me away from a W140. I really want to have confidence in purchasing a newer Merc, but accounts like this and my own E300 keep me away. My wife is looking for the Accord diesel when it arrives.

I know someone who bought a 1984 300SD new and had a similer horror story. Car never started right, cost him thousands finaly dumped it.

turnne1 · #35 01-14-2007, 07:01 AM

I had a 1992 300SD that had a motor that was replaced at 99K

full long block was replaced( under warranty) and I was given another 4 year 48K warranty....cost would have been around $14,000 if I had had to pay it

someone earlier that the motor was not the only issue you needed to analyze with the 140's and they are right ..many more issues can cost you alot of money

Seems like they have bottomed out on the resale market....you can get a mid's 90's one all day long for less than $10,000....makes me wonder about those people that bought say an S500 in 1997 for probably in the mid $70,000 and now its worth 14-15K...thats a big bite

But at the same time I can understand...with a 140 you could spend 30-40% of its value( or more) with just an evap core fix

Warren
2000 BMW 740i( with full sports package)
2001 Olds Aurora V8 97K
1992 300SD(180K) sold
1992 300D(208K) sold
1985 300SD(203K) sold

Columbus Ohio

stephenson · #36 01-14-2007, 09:42 AM

Here's the strategic position of the W126 with 603.970 ... great car, very reliable chassis and electrics/electronics, easy to work on ... potentially costly engine issues - so, anytime you buy one, discount it heavily based on the engine. Then, if ya have problems, replace the engine or rebuild with updated part - do the experts agree updated and reliable 603.97x are available now? What's the cost? Discount close to that, then ...

How about strategic alternatives? W126 with straight six or small V-8? In the case of the six, it would appear to get about 5 MPG less or so, the small V-8 about 7 MPG different?

For me diesels were all about longevity, lower cost, and driving something "different." However, as I continue to repair and replace components on my now "close to 200K" 350 SDL, and change the oil every 3K (filters cost 3-4X over gas and the engines required twice the oil), and pay 10-22% more (high octane-regular) for diesel at the pump, I am beginning to reconsider my position. I could likely drive a nice car of many varieties for quite a bit less per mile - perhaps even a nice MB and then just deal with lower quality standards (I think mainly due to them not yet getting their arms around their supplier issues).

What does everyone think? With prices of diesel and improvements in gas engine technology and longevity, are we trying to hard to "be different?"

turnne1 · #37 01-14-2007, 09:58 AM

I really enjoyed all three diesels I owned...however if I had had to pay for the work done on my 140 out of my own pocket I would be singing another tune to be sure

I enjoyed the aspect of the cars being different...even looked at a few 98-99 e300's a few years ago when I was looking to replace the 1992 300SD...but honestly have to tell you that the lack of cooperation from my local MB zone rep in regard to service on my car really made me rethink some things.
When I started having engine issues they acted like they had never seen this before...then after the started burning a quart of oil every 200 miles they seemed to already know what was wrong and the solution
After the period of the warranty was up I was having a conversation with him about the $20,000 worth of warranty worth my car had had in my ownership and he replied " why do you care..you didn't pay for any of it"
That statement really concerned me going forward about the lack of care for customers
They should have stepped up to the plate on that engine issue in my opinion

Warren
2000 BMW 740i( with full sports package)
2001 Olds Aurora V8 97K
1992 300SD(180K) sold
1992 300D(208K) sold
1985 300SD(203K) sold

Columbus Ohio

barry123400 · #38 01-14-2007, 03:16 PM

Well there is little mentioned about the new cdi cars yet. Positive or negative. I finally decided to get one today. Of course someone else out there is test driving it for me for a few years. I can only hope they are using it easily and not tampering with the odometer system. If the feedback is not catastrophic on these in the next several years I will probably pick it up.

Mertcedes company ethics play a large part in the 350s. They knew this problem was not going to go away. It is beyond my logic they did not install new or rebuilt 3.0 litre short blocks as a replacement. Even in the ones covered under warranty. Especially now if one took a car with the problem in. I believe they would still install the 3.5 unless you got hostile and requested otherwise. .
Buying one up with a bad engine and low milage cheap may make sense. Then just get and recondition a short block and drop it in. Even if the engine is not presently bad a spare 3 litre short block is a good ideal to own in my opinion. The head must be almost fault free on that late a car and it does fit the 3 litre block.
It would tend to increase the resale value perhaps even if you did not eventually need it. Of course sell it along with the car when you let it go. It should boost the resale value a little. I think the majority of potential buyers interested in cars with the 3.5 litre block are pretty much aware of the problem. Life being what it is. If you have the spare short engine block your 3.5 might not fail. If you do not you know what to expect. All the conjecture ended for me on the 3.5 when I saw how little material there was between cylinder bores. The three litre block has at least twice as much material separating the bores. That just looks adaquate and comforatable. The 3.5 falls into the catagory of really stupid engineering I think. Also I do not think this engine was ever released in europe. Mercedes knew of the problem before introduction I fear. Or very shortly after introduction. If not it could still have showed up when the calculations for the overbore where done. It is a diesel and they were in the process of weakening the block. I know they are a large company but what could they have been thinking.

turnne1 · #39 01-14-2007, 08:36 PM

why would they put a 3.0 liter in this car?...the car was designed and engineered for a 3.5....this was the engine that was that was the next generation....so why would they go backward?..it was up to them to make the 3.5 reliable and the next generation......and no backward steps

To me it would be hard to imagine the 3.0 in a 140 since there was a whole generation there that was different...in regards to resale value how much money are we talking here....quite frankly the cars, even the most pristene of the 15-20 year old cars ,are not worth much...so much so that the repairs versus the cars value would make you question the math

Warren
2000 BMW 740i( with full sports package)
2001 Olds Aurora V8 97K
1992 300SD(180K) sold
1992 300D(208K) sold
1985 300SD(203K) sold

Columbus Ohio

sixto · #40 01-14-2007, 11:37 PM

The 96-?? S300 sold outside the US came with a 3 liter 606. The 3.5 liter bore and stroke live on in the 2.9 liter variant of the 602.

In my case the cost of a set of the latest rods, bearings, rings and machine work was far greater than the cost of a good used 3.0 block so I went with a 3.0 block.

Sixto
93 300SD 3.0

Hit Man X · #41 01-15-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephenson

How about strategic alternatives? W126 with straight six or small V-8? In the case of the six, it would appear to get about 5 MPG less or so, the small V-8 about 7 MPG different?

What does everyone think? With prices of diesel and improvements in gas engine technology and longevity, are we trying to hard to "be different?"

420s are a bargain, at least around here. Economy is about a wash (dollar to mile figure), yesterday No 2 was 40¢ more than 93... and they can burn 89 if you desire.

I've seen people report 18-22mpg freeway with them. Not bad, performance is adequate too. Low 7 sec area 0-60mph according to my booklet from MB. Euro 380 true duals will fit to help it breathe better.

FINALLY there are ALUMINUM upper guides for the M116 too! They're about 3x as much as the plastic (which are what, $5/ea?). They are just like a tensioner rail with the rubber on the rail. You will basically be set for the next 150k until you do the chain again. The M116 (and the 117 in the 560) pretty much don't wear. They do have some valve seal issues after a while but the bottom end will keep on ticking.

DslBnz · #42 01-15-2007, 12:49 AM

Yes.

The 420 and the 560SEL can live with their 2nd gear starts quite easily. They have some decent muscle off the line, even with their tall gearing.

The 560 nets about 15 mpg mixed driving, and the 420 about 20 mpg in my experience.

The 560 is the one that has the performance advantage. It reaches 60 mph in about 7.6 seconds while the 420 takes about 8.7 seconds. The V8's are grossly cheap right now, and the M116/117 are beauties so long as you monitor your chain replacement intervals.

They cannot touch an SDL though for mileage. On good fuel I'll net 30 mpg while a 420 can only get about 22 mpg under the same conditions. And you must use premium unleaded for long emissions equipment life and acceptable fuel economy (otherwise the spark is retarded). At least 91 octane. So, the difference between premium unleaded and diesel now is about 2%. Compared to the 27% gain in fuel economy. I still love diesels.

Hatterasguy · #43 01-15-2007, 01:12 PM

Considering condition, mileage and service history are equal. a 420/560SEL are about half the price of the same SDL.

You can buy a lot of fuel for that money, for what amounts to a 5mpg-7mpg difference.

Lister1000 · #44 08-17-2008, 01:53 PM

What is a HD Rod?

oldsouth · #45 08-17-2008, 03:55 PM

You are probably referring to the heavy duty rods supposedly in the later model 350's. They are larger and stronger and resist the rod-bending that the engine is known for.