... have you visited out on the old dairy farm with the folks at **************.Com?
Regards,

Your not talking about "Kirk" down in Chimacum at the "farm" are you?? Hes the only MB guy on an old dairy that I have ever ran into. Your in "up state" Ca right?

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Sam,

Interesting that you noticed better power from timing retarded by a few degrees. I'm interested to see what happens when I check mine. Im going to check it this week at some point, I'll probably hold off on adjusting it until I finish my upcoming double rear axle shaft job so I am not changing too many things at once. Quite frankly, the adjustment of this precision device is downright barbaric in comparison.

dd

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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

http://www.**************.com/, his name is: Kent Bergsma...
and I know he's up near the Canadian border N. of Seattle!
I see he has started a FORUM on his WebSite!
... It's much the same ! You can advance a gas engine until the valves begin to clatter and then back off a little to improve your MPG but you sacrifice some power... and so I found [unless I'm deluded] with my 240D's engine that I lost power when I took the IP from 20 to 23.5 Deg. BTDC!
Regards,

Oh, OK A different guy on an old dairy farm. He has been dealing on eBay for quite a while I think, No I dont know him.

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Well, a lot of time has passed, here's what I have done to try to fix my warm shaky idle, with no success yet:

(this is over the last six months, over which time the car has been driven 300 miles or so)
- new motor mounts, shocks and shock mounts
- new air filter
- replaced rack damper bolt with a gold one from a yard car: no fix
- new fuel filters
- fresh tank of dino diesel with a can of LM diesel hi test
- diesel purge
- pro rebuilt injectors with Bosch nozzles, re-tested and re-confirmed
- checked timing chain stretch: 3.5 deg
- by passed EGR with Brian Carltons kit
- confirmed pump timing is 23.5 deg BTDC
-removed tank cap with car running: no difference
- FWIW ran millivolt method test:
1: 4.8 mV
2: 5.8 mV
3: 7.0 mV
4: 6.8 mV
5. 5.4 mV

TO DO:
-compression check with HF tester
-try running bio or dino off an auxillary tank for kicks

Any comments or advice? Anything else I can try?

This only starts after the car has been driven a ways and fully, fully warmed up. No complaints on power. Im starting to get down to the expensive stuff...

dd

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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

" scotty449 scotty449 is offline
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15
Just went through the same issues chasing some heavy shaking at idle.

Replaced the injectors, adjusted the valve clearance, retimed the IP, checked for chain stretch, purged with cleaner, replaced the fuel filters, blew out the fuel line to unclog the strainer, checked the compression (325psi+/-5psi), nothing worked. Drove me nuts.

Then I replaced the injection pump. Voila. Smooth as silk now"

Seems like this is a common issue with the 617 motor, mine included. The idle was smooth until I replaced a totally deteriorated driver's side engine mount, after which it would shake annoyingly after engine is fully warmed. It'd be smooth from a cold start but starts to shake after warmup. I tried adjusting the RDB without improvement. I did not try a new RDB however, gut feeling told me that's not it and I did'nt feel like blowing 50 bucks. I just kept driving it and slowly the shake became less and less in amplitude. Maybe it took time for the new engine mount rubber to "break in"?

I just adjusted the valves (they were all tight except inlet cyl #5, which was right on at .004), after which I noticed the idle is quite smooth. At idle I can see maybe 1/8" movement at the power steering pump. I have a very minor fuel leak at 2 of the injectors where it threads into the head. Maybe after sorting that out the idle will be even smoother?

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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked

it's the ol' "Engine Rocks to-and-fro at Idle, need ideas..." THEAD !!

A lot has happened to my MBZ diesel learning curve since I first contributed my earlier POSTs to this THREAD... most particularly how I check/verify timing of the IP(s). I have abandoned the "Spit-on-ya" timing check method for it was much too hit-and/or-miss. This does not mean I went back to the MBZ book "drip method", but I have done what I think many [if not most] others have and followed the basics of the " drip method " but just left off the so many seconds between drips criteria. Like many, many, others I suspect, I now keep retarding the timing until the fuel drips jusssst stop... and I have found this to work just fine. This aided me in determing that with my Kent-Moore "Tach-N-Time" meter has 11-t0-12 degrees correction factor which is not surprisingly very close to what Brian Carlton came up with using other official MBZ timing check equipment that uses colored lights. So I can now check the timing on a 616 or 617 engine in less than 5 minutes and figure I'm accurate to within ~2 degrees. For those who do not know, the "Tach-N-Time" meter using piezo-electric vibration sensors that clamp onto the #1 fuel line and then the meter serves as a tachometer and also triggers a standard inductive stobe timing light.

But this doesn't help you with your engine problem that causes it to run rough AFTER it warms up. If this was a gas engine, I'd guess that it was a broken or defective spark plug wire-to-connector wire problem that would open up as it heated up. Let's think about components on a diesel that similarly could affect fuel flow such that it occured after warming up or something like vapor lock only appeard to be affected by the engine warming up. I see you already tried leaving the fuel cap off the tank... so you appear to have rulled out a a clogged or defective vacuum release valve/line.

My gut says that we need to talk through the possibility that the chain stretch and/or valve timing change due to warming up of the engine... maybe these are a clue to us in diagnosing this problem.???

Let me also try this one on my MBZ Independent mechanic coffee-drinking friend "Karl" who I lovingly refer to as the mad Hungarian. He has ~30 years of working on these cars.

Regards,

and something you last said:
" by passed EGR with Brian Carltons kit "
just popped back into my head and makes me want to ask you to clarify:

Q1 - Did you do a complete physical removal of the EGR which I personally would NOT refer to as " bypassed the EGR " ?

IF you did NOT remove the EGR and blank off both of its connections, then this might be where we can look... think of the heavy cast iron exhaust manifold heating up and then causing exhaust to somehow leak into the intake manifold. I don't think this is possible IF you installed Brian's kit the way I think it was intended to be installed. Just ill at ease with your use of "by passed EGR" comment.

Regards,

I just replaced my rd bolt. I had to back it out and in several times to achieve results. Now smooth as silk. Not saying it will work for all but did for me.

Jim

Its removed and the ports blocked off.

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'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car

German Imported Parts has these last I checked. They call it "screw under stop solendoid back of injector pump" ??? you know, that whatchyamacallit! The refference to mb part# is correct 000 074 2674. I suppose when they realizewhat theyhave the price will go up.

'83 300 SD - New purchase. 216k miles on original engine.

The valves were adjusted today. Some of them were tight. Plenty of power (0-60mph in 14 seconds, topped off at 90mph which was all traffic would allow but was still accelerating) and no smoke. Cruises smoothly at 80mph with cruise control engaged and no noticeable speed drop when going up over an overpass. Engine starts immediately.

But now after warmup the idle is horrible. Motor mounts were inspected by a mechanic and he said they looked fine. Did the shade tree mechanic's test by having someone press the brakes while reving the engine in gear - very little movement. The IP damper bolt is the gold one. At ~1,000 rpm the engine smooths out and when moving is very smooth. The roughness is the same whether in gear or not.

There appears to be a vacuum leak somewhere leading to the transmission. Vacuum overall seems fine (brakes booster works, engine shuts off immediately) but the transmission shifts 1-2 very hard unless I am at better than 3/4 throttle at which point it shifts very smoothly.

The damper bolt was screwed all of the way into the IP. I backed it out about 3/8" and there was no change in roughness. My understanding is that all of the way in would provide maximum damping but the engine would quit. My understanding is also that this bolt is pressing on a spring which is providing the dampening.

1) Is my understanding correct?

2) If so is it possible that this spring is bad? Can it be easily replaced?

3) What should I be checking next?

Edit: - BTW - all fluids and filters except for coolent (which looked fresh) and fuel tank strainer (no apparent need) were just changed.

We have replaced the motor mounts on all 3 of the MBZ(s) you see listed below in my signature... and based upon my recolection as to what the old ones looked like before and then the improvement in the roughness of idle, I hold heartedly recommend you make the small investment in the two motor mounts and the one transmission mount for your 300 SD!

For those who have a 240D as I do, then I would recommend replacing all 4 of the mounts every 6 to 8 years... regardless as to what their physical appearance is!

And I think my Hungarian INDY friend mechanic with 40+ years of wrenching and 30+ yeas on MBZ(s)... I think he would echo much, if not all of what I have stated above! The left [driver] side mount is most crucial for it is the one that is compressed by torque from the engine while the right side of the engine lifts up when the engine pulls hard. Also the left side mount is exposed more to diesel oil leaks due to it's location beneath the fuel filter, pump, main filter, and IP... and rubber deteriorates rapidly when exposed to fuel oil! Make sure the thin aluminum or sheet metal covers shield these two mounts that cradle the engine on the chassis!

Regards,

Thanks for the info. I am not adverse to spending the money if needed but want to verify that this is the way to go. The engine moves very little (less than 1/2" at the valve cover) when we did the "brake and step on the throttle" test. Wouldn't the engine move more if the mounts were truly worn?