Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 10-21-2008, 12:17 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA... No. of S.F.
Posts: 890
... Movement is good !...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Horr View Post
Thanks for the info. I am not adverse to spending the money if needed but want to verify that this is the way to go. The engine moves very little (less than 1/2" at the valve cover) when we did the "brake and step on the throttle" test. Wouldn't the engine move more if the mounts were truly worn?
IMHO, the obvious lack of movement is a strong indicator that the rubber mounts have hardened with age and/or exposure to petrochemicals from the engine. I have little doubt that you will never regret changing out motor mounts on a diesel engine unless they are less than 5 to 8 years of age!
Regards,

Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-21-2008, 12:50 AM
dieseldan44's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,042
Gene,

In the end I improved my issue a lot by getting a new rack damper pin, rebuilding injectors and adjusting my timing.

But, the heart of the issue is that two of my cylinders are low on compression. #4 is about 220psi, and #5 is about 260psi. I think that is what causes the issue. Since the two cylinders fire later than the other three, it unbalances the whole thing. Its not bad, just a gentle shake at idle that I have now grown accustomed to.

Like yours, the car runs like a scalded dog, doesnt smoke much, sounds great, gets 25-26 mpg highway and even starts when its cold after a couple glow cycles.

You have a bunch of stuff to check over, but just to let you know that can be the issue. A compression check could tell you a lot...

That being said, i learned a lot about the car chasing this one down :-)

dd
__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-21-2008, 09:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 343
I'll try the compression test next. I assumed compression wasn't an issue with this engine as it fires up immediately even when cold after a single glow plug cycle.

Any recommendations on a pressure gauge? It's probably been over 20 years since I did one, it was on an old low compression gasoline engine, and IIRC had just a rubber tip that you pressed into the spark plug cavity. I am assuming that you would need a model that can be threaded into the injector plug cavity. A search for "compression test" does not appear to reference any detailed how-to instructions, just results.

On that matter are there any caveats on removing the injectors?

Edit: Well, that was incorrect, sort of. Finally found some apparent information here and here . There was conflicting information but it appears that you can buy a tester from NAPA that has adapters that will thread into the glow plug holes. I'll stop by there in the morning.

Last edited by Gene Horr; 10-21-2008 at 09:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-22-2008, 12:12 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel M. Ross View Post
Does the symptom above sound like the start of this THREAD...??

I was doing some casual reading of a new book I just purchased, the Haynes manual for "Mercedes-Benz Diesel 123 Series"... so let me quote you from it's troubleshooting section for the likely causes for this symptom:
(1) Air filter clogged,
(2) Fault in the fuel injection pump or timer,
(3) Clogged fuel injector,
(4) Leaking head gasket...,
(5) Timing chain worn,
(6) Camshaft lobes worn, AND
(7) Contaminated fuel.
Q - What do you suppose is meant in (2) where it says "... or timer"?
I think this should have read: " Fault in the fuel injection pump or timing of this pump."
Regards,
Sam I think they mean the mechanical advance timing unit situated in front of the pump but I am not absolutly certain. I think I have heard it reffered to as the timer.

Last edited by barry123400; 10-22-2008 at 12:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 10-22-2008, 11:09 AM
Stevo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: NW WA
Posts: 6,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Horr View Post
I'll try the compression test next. I assumed compression wasn't an issue with this engine as it fires up immediately even when cold after a single glow plug cycle.

Any recommendations on a pressure gauge? It's probably been over 20 years since I did one, it was on an old low compression gasoline engine, and IIRC had just a rubber tip that you pressed into the spark plug cavity. I am assuming that you would need a model that can be threaded into the injector plug cavity. A search for "compression test" does not appear to reference any detailed how-to instructions, just results.

On that matter are there any caveats on removing the injectors?

Edit: Well, that was incorrect, sort of. Finally found some apparent information here and here . There was conflicting information but it appears that you can buy a tester from NAPA that has adapters that will thread into the glow plug holes. I'll stop by there in the morning.
For doing your compression test, you will need an adapter with a 90 degree swivel which can be used in the injector or GP hole. I got mine from "Eppy Tool",Brookklyn, NY . The "Snappon" guy used to carry them but no more

I use the GP hole because pulling injectors means new return line and replacing the heat shield.
__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 10-22-2008, 12:34 PM
dieseldan44's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,042
Gene,

The diesel engine compression testing kit sold by Harbor Freight tools is what most folks use. Thats what I have since i hopefully wont be doing many compression tests. I got mine for $30. Instructions are included with the kit. There are instructions on the forum, I had to dig a while to find them.

Basically you take the injectors out, attached in the compression gauge and crank the engine over 7 or 8 times, then check the reading. Its easy to do.

I tested through the injector holes, this seems to be the easiest thing to do to me. Some suggest testing through the glow plug holes.

dd
__________________
-------------------------------
'85 300D, 'Lance',250k, ... winter beater (100k on franken-Frybrid 3 Valve Kit)
'82 300D, 'Tex', 228k body / 170k engine ... summer car
'83 300TD Cali Wagon 210k, wife's car
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 10-23-2008, 01:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 343
The problem was as I originally suspected - the rack damper bolt. Instructions for all of this are a bit, ah, lacking and so I will post my steps for inspection.

You'll need a 14mm and a 12mm wrench. The 14mm for the locking nut and the 12mm for the bolt itself. The bolt has a spring loaded pin on the tip. This is what provides the damping.

1) Loosen the lock nut. In my case it looked like it was all of the way back and so I had backed the bolt out a little to loosen the nut. It winds up that in my case even though the bolt looked like it was all of the way in to the eye there was actually a couple of mm gap.

2) The oil filter cannister allows you to only turn the wrenth in 30 degree increments. And there isn't room to get a socket on it. But taking off the filter would take more time than you would save by being able to use the socket and so just bear with it. It isn't held in by a large number of threads (5 or 6?). The bolt isn't very long.

3) I was worried about oil pouring out but less than a teaspoon ran out. A few paper towels will keep things clean.

4) I had one of the new design "gold" (brass?) bolts. The plunger spring appears very good. It takes a few pounds of force to push it in. If it is loose (or if the plunger is frozen) it may be time for a new bolt.

5) I inspected the O-ring. The threads on the bolt have a gap and I assume this is where the O-ring sits. The O-ring was flattened. I reused it for the running test but will purchase a replacement.

6) You have to use a little bit of of pressure to get the bolt started when putting it back in. Fingertip pressure but it is a bit awkward at the angle where it sits. Since these are metric threads/a little finer than people may be used to you have to use the proper method to avoid cross threading. Push the bolt in, rotating it counterclockwise as if you are removing it. You'll feel it "click" when it reaches the end of the thread. At this point then reverse direction and it should engage smoothly.

7) I was able to hand thread the bolt in until I started feeling a little resistance. At this point it looked like it was almost all of the way in. I gave it about 1/4 turn more, locked the locknut, and started the engine. The engine almost ran too smoothly. Purred like a kitten. Took it for a short drive to get it to operating temperature. It got a little rougher running but I can't feel anything inside the cabin. Night and day compared to before.

I still plan on testing the compression and fuel pressures just to have additional data but at this time they appeared completely unrelated to the symptoms I described earlier.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page