I think the confusion caused by your previous thread was due to the nomenclature you used to refer to the MB in question (a 240D and a 300D):

E240D and E300D.

I didn't really think that anyone was arguing whether or not they were in fact E-class, just that *nobody* calls a W123 240D a E240D. I think you're arguing the wrong point.

__________________
-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

Where? Einspritzung is not mentioned in your link.

All I see in there is "The W124 chassis 300D (pre E Class facelift) has the OM603 engine, a turbocharged inline six cylinder."

I have NEVER heard of W123 240D being called an E240D until your confusing thread.

Also, please point out in your manual where it mentions "E240D" specifically, not just that they should be referred to as e-class..

According to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W123

The E does stand for Einspritzung, but is only used as such on gas engines, not for all W123 chassis.

Maybe pride is getting the best of you knightrider as it looks like you're defending shaky ground at this point.

Here's another link that declares the W124 to be the first chassis to be designated as "E-Class":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz#Cars

The section below is also of particular interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz#Car_nomenclature

__________________
-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

Wikipedia is the collective views of some people. The views here by those that have the greatest amount of experience contradict the MB page in Wiki. If you wish to believe Wiki over the MBShop diesel forum- go ahead. I had a junk yard cashier tell me that TD stood for Turbo Diesel also. I said it stood for Touring Diesel, aka a station wagon; I had a 1980 300TD. I showed him the engine and he still thought he was right.

The only so called class that was around back then was the "S" models. Things wern't divied up that way until 1994 when the letters started coming first.

Technically if you go by production dates and model runs, you're right, the 123 would be the "E" Equivalent since the 124 replaced that, the 190's would be the early "C" class, even MB lists the 190 under the "c-class" section on the SDS machines, but why stop there? The 114 and 115 would be E's as well, but who's counting? I refer to them all by chassis anyways so its not really that significant.

__________________


1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350

It makes no sense to say that it were an E class equivalent, then what would the W123 Coupes be classed under, or referred to as.

I'm quite happy with the chassis name, W123

__________________
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...Signiture2.jpg

What is the purpose of this discussion?
You may call a W123 anything you wish--you may call it a pre-Maybach. I do not care.
Mercedes USA never referred to these cars a "E Class", so that settles it for me. But so what? What is the point of all of this?


Does it make you feel better as a person to call the W123 an "E Class"?

__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

exactly.

I'm quite happy with my 1982 CLK300DT and my 1983 CL380

__________________


1980 500SE/AMG Euro
1981 500SEL Euro
1982 380SEL
1983 300TD
1983 500SEC/AMG Euro
1984 500SEC
1984 300TD Euro
1986 190E 2.3-16
1986 190E 2.3
1987 300D
1997 C36 AMG
2003 C320T 4matic

past: 1969 280SE 4.5 | 1978 240D | 1978 300D | 1981 300SD | 1981 300SD | 1982 300CD | 1983 300CD | 1983 300SD | 1983 380SEC | 1984 300D | 1984 300D | 1984 300TD | 1984 500SEL | 1984 300SD | 1985 300D | 1986 300E | 1986 560SEL | 1986 560SEL/Carat | 1987 560SEC | 1991 300D 2.5 | 2006 R350

I agree, this is silly. For diesels, I guess the you could consider the 240D and the 190D as the 80s entry level car, the W123 300D (followed by the W124 300D) as the mid-level and the W126 as the upper-end car, but there is not much correlation to the current classes. FWIW, my 82 300D was about $31K new, and that's equivalent to something like $60-70K now. I don't know/care much about all the price levels of the new E-class stuff, but they do seem pretty cheap for a mid-level car by current standards. I'm guessing that they are just going down-market to compete with the ricers.

I do think it's a mistake for them to sell their current entry-level cars (C-class) in the U.S. I think these all sell for less than $40K. I don't know who their target market is, maybe young/single folks who have grown out of 3-series BMWs but still can't get into a $50k+ car and/or don't want an "old-guy car." IMHO, they should stay in the mid and upper-level markets in the U.S. I thought they bought Chrysler to cover the low-end market.

i call mine an E class when ever someone asks what kind is that.

"It's one of the older E classes, before they started the whole E320 bit and such"



and H-Town

I ment the E Class was entry level until the C debut and of course the A Class (I bet E class is still entry level to those making 90k a year though )

The term "E-class" arrived with the W124 facelift in 1994, when the 300E became the E320. It wasn't E-class until the E moved to the front.

It's been used retroactively to describe previous W124s and, yes, sometimes, W123, but this is informal, of course.

I have a 1988 brochure that calls both 260E and 300E "300-class." Nobody called these cars "E-class" despite the E in the model designator.

As for "entry level"--when there are only two model lines, one has to be the lower, and that wasn't the S-class. WHen it became three--with the arrival of the W201 (190-class) the new boy became the "entry" model. Since the W201 came before the W124, the latter was never "entry level."

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

I don't think so.

AFAIK, the E-Class was introduced with the W124 in 1986 (for the US), not 1994 when they started reversing the letter/number badge. Every shop manual for the W124 is titled "Shop Manual for the Mercedes Benz E-Class". These manuals were not re-branded retroactively post-1994.

__________________
-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

No, you're mistaken.

The 260E and 300E were called "300-class" by Mercedes.

"E-class" arrived with the facelift. You can read this in Mercedes Enthusiast among other places.

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
Kent Christensen
Albuquerque
'07 GL320CDI, '10 CL550. '01 Porsche Boxster
Two BMW motorcycles

I humbly stand down.

__________________
-justin

1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
2008 R32, 2000 Passat Wagon

According to MB the E class started in Europe in 1993, when MB overhualed there model nomenclature. Before that E was for Einspritzer.

After the overhual diesels were designated with the D at the end. Hence E300D, E320CDI and so on.

AFAIK the 300D's of the 80's were just known as W123's.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200