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  #1  
Old 01-09-2007, 11:18 PM
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What do I need to know about camshafts?

Ok, I know there was the old weak ones for the 617.912's, and my engine has the small thread pencil plugs, and was also told my engine came from a newer year car than mine, so I can eliminate that one from the worry list. Now I was reading a post mentioning matching valve caps and such with cams, and different lobe heights? I very badly need to get mine replaced, and need to know what is involved in properly identifying it and related parts I might need to check. I had just thought there was only the two cams for the N/A engines...

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64 190D R.I.P.
80 240D W/617 engine -for sale
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:24 AM
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Probably ought to find the online manual on this ... Braingears.com or something like that...

You do need to match the valve adjusting top nut with the camshaft or the cam follower ...don't remember which one offhand...
on the 616 engine there is an ' uprated' engine and the regular... the first has a few more hp .... and got it with higher lift lobes...
there are chilled cam lobes and something else... try to find the online manual ... but hollar if you can't and I will try to find my manual...
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2007, 06:28 AM
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Would be a good idea.....

It would be a good idea to locate your engine number......cast into block.....

If you know the exact engine #...it will help ID the exact cam that you would need.....

SB
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Diesels:
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'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:47 AM
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You cant use an older style (pre 80s) head on a new style block because of the pre combustion chambers interfering with the pistons which your prolly aware of. I had to replace a cam on my daughters 78 240D so I just found an early eng at the wrecking yard. Shouldn't be a big deal.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
You cant use an older style (pre 80s) head on a new style block because of the pre combustion chambers interfering with the pistons which your prolly aware of. I had to replace a cam on my daughters 78 240D so I just found an early eng at the wrecking yard. Shouldn't be a big deal.
So does that mean that the precombustion chambers alone can not be made to match ?
Install the correct precombustion chamber into whichever year in order to match the piston top ?
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
So does that mean that the precombustion chambers alone can not be made to match ?
Install the correct precombustion chamber into whichever year in order to match the piston top ?
Thats a good question. I have always just made sure the head matched the block, early or late, and thats the 616, I'm guessing the 617s are the same.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2007, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
Thats a good question..
Yes, it is.... so I was hoping YOU would look it up instead of me.... LOL
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2007, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Yes, it is.... so I was hoping YOU would look it up instead of me.... LOL
Well actually when I think about it more, it wouldn't work because the head has a different configuration to accommodate the different type of P/C (spray pattern) so if they fit or not it wouldn't matter, anyway its snowing between here and the shop
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2007, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
Well actually when I think about it more, it wouldn't work because the head has a different configuration to accommodate the different type of P/C (spray pattern) so if they fit or not it wouldn't matter, anyway its snowing between here and the shop
Hum... I did not know that...I only remember the different piston top and them saying the precombustion chamber tip must match the piston...
I thought it got that " different " spray pattern from number and placement of holes ( and then more power by increasing the size of a couple of them later )....

I really had the impression that one could move the precombustion chambers from one to another in order to match up with the pistons...
How are we going to confirm which way it is ?

If you ' think about it' more is there a chance we can get a different answer ? LOL
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2007, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
If you ' think about it' more is there a chance we can get a different answer ? LOL
YEP
I went to the shop and they both look the same. I was thinking there was some different milling so you might be able to just swap P/Cs to match the pistons.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2007, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorebilly View Post
It would be a good idea to locate your engine number......cast into block.....

If you know the exact engine #...it will help ID the exact cam that you would need.....

SB
Funny you should say that...I was just staring at that earlier this afternoon while tinkering on glow plugs and thinking to myself "I wonder if I should write that one down with the stamped one". I'll get it tomorrow, I already have the stamped one from under #5. On the bright side all my gp's bench tested fine, look pretty new too. so I tore the module apart tonight.
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64 190D R.I.P.
80 240D W/617 engine -for sale
82 240D -for sale
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2007, 09:08 AM
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Mustang Man, If you are having problems which you attribute to lack of glow plug help in starting the engine..but find no obvious faults... consider using the glow plug hole reamer... carbon slowly builds up around them and insulates their effect ...so you get the symptom without them being bad in any other way... I think they may have one in the rental program...check the sticky's at top of page...
The FSM says to apply heavy grease to the threads when you do that.. to capture chunks .... and then to use compressed air to blow out the rest...
Don't use the engine turning over as that may suck it into the bore depending on the start position of the piston ....
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Mustang Man, If you are having problems which you attribute to lack of glow plug help in starting the engine..but find no obvious faults... consider using the glow plug hole reamer... carbon slowly builds up around them and insulates their effect ...so you get the symptom without them being bad in any other way... I think they may have one in the rental program...check the sticky's at top of page...
The FSM says to apply heavy grease to the threads when you do that.. to capture chunks .... and then to use compressed air to blow out the rest...
Don't use the engine turning over as that may suck it into the bore depending on the start position of the piston ....
Actually, the starting up has never been an issue yet, just the light blinking while driving, which I have finally attributed to just being a bad sensing circuit in the module, I pulled the plugs yesterday and they tested great (just to make sure they were actually working and not having a mid-cycle loss with a thermal related failure). While they were out I took a mechanics mirror and small mag light, and looked around up into the glow holes, I could see the bottom of the prechamber diffusers in place, & clean looking inside the prechambers, I did blow evereything out with air before reinstalling just to remove any loosened deposits, and wire wheeled the glows (tip & threads) for easier installing (also used never seize on threads). It was interesting, they are Bosch plugs, but look different than my spares (which came from my old 616) and have a different part number yet both are supposedly the same plug from Bosch? I disassembled the relay this morning and inspected everything, looks good, I cleaned the relay contacts with an ignition file as they had some crud on them. I have the 3 bolt style module with the 5 reed switches. I have already tested everything else in-car to make sure voltages are there and such, everything is perfect, except the light blinks going down the road.

I know I need a cam however as I have visually seen (not just felt) a ridge in one of the lobes along an edge where the lobe does not rub on the rocker, and it has a bad miss when cold, subsides when warmed but still can be noticed @ certain RPM's. The miss is getting worse and my mileage is dropping now so I think its getting worse, I don't want to fiddle with the valves until I have a good cam to set them by. Once the cam is done and valves set, if the miss continues I will look into getting an adapter for compression checking, and pending those results will move into having injectors/pump tested, I want to pull the injectors anyway for inspection as I have no knowledge of past maintenance/history on them. Engine supposedly has around 130K on it now. I have already verified the chain timing and IP timing to not be a problem.
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64 190D R.I.P.
80 240D W/617 engine -for sale
82 240D -for sale
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2007, 09:50 PM
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Why don't you pull your precombustion chambers and see if those five to seven holes where the fuel is dispersed into the combustion chamber after hitting that difuser... you can not check those TINY holes without taking the chamber out of the head ( or the head off the engine ).... They are critical to the burning process....and are one item which might show up more on a cold engine than after warmed up....
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  #15  
Old 01-13-2007, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leathermang View Post
Why don't you pull your precombustion chambers and see if those five to seven holes where the fuel is dispersed into the combustion chamber after hitting that difuser... you can not check those TINY holes without taking the chamber out of the head ( or the head off the engine ).... They are critical to the burning process....and are one item which might show up more on a cold engine than after warmed up....
Not a bad idea indeed, and something I would like to look into doing while the injectors are out simply for the sake of having peace of mind on it. I have to make a tool, I have my old 616 head lying in the shop still which I can use for modelling the tool on, and need to get some heat shields (from what I am understanding on past posts I will have and need to replace these). I know they can be pulled without removing the head. I do not plan on disturbing the head itself unless I get some really awkward reading on the compression test after I have a known good camshaft and valve settings, Even at that, if it gets to that level of expense, I may just decide to run it until it quits and part out the car, its really not worth sinking a lot of money into anymore (trans going out and body rust). As long as the mechanicals are good enough to keep it going, & do so safely I'll keep it plugging on for my commuter. I really have probably sunk too much in it already, runs decent though, and looking at the price of a new cam, ($400-600 is my understanding) thats a big ouchie, so I'm looking at finding one at a local wrecker thats still good, and just snagging the whole top mess, towers, followers, etc. so I know everything is matched to work, and I will be looking for something from 80 or better, preferably 81 on, as they have the better cams. I'm hoping someone out here has a parts car or bad engine with a good non turbo 617 top end that might graciously assist the situation.....

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80 240D W/617 engine -for sale
82 240D -for sale
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