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  #1  
Old 01-07-2007, 01:21 AM
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Year of a used engine??? No vin #

How on earth do you tell the year of a used engine without the vin# of the car it came out of? Purchased a 1979 300D non-turbo early last year. MB independant Mechanic that put in the engine said it was not the same as the old engine but a very good engine. Engine came from ASAP Motors in Houston. They assured me it was a direct replacement 1979 300D 617.912 but it has pencil glow plugs that were not used until 1980! Camshaft is different from 1979 to 1980-81. Richard took the camshaft out today, #4 cam lobes are worn so I am replacing the camshaft to solve a rough idle problem but what year? The cast numbers on the driver's side of the block are 617 011 09 01. Under these numbers are 044 73. The numbers on the front of the engine are 617 016 03 01. Under these numbers are Mo Gr. Numbers on the camshaft from front to back in different places along the shaft are 4797 617 05. Any help will be greatly appreciated because I would like to buy the correct camshft!
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1979 300D non-turbo silver
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2007, 01:27 PM
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Isn't the year irrelevant as long as you have the engine number?
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #3  
Old 01-07-2007, 02:46 PM
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By engine number, do you mean 617.912? I need to revise the # under the block/serial # 044 79, not 044 73. My understanding is that the camshaft journal diameters and towers are different from 1979 to 1981/80. I am a novice but with a lot of reading the only 300 1979 car with pencil glow plugs was a 300SD, a TURBO. If I recall, the 1979 300SD and a 300D both had a 617.912 engine. My engine has pencil glow plugs and as far as I know, they are not in a 1979 300D non-turbo. The engine is strong running and starting and I plan to keep the car for a long time. I've had a lot of work done to this car over the past 2 and 1/2 years translating to money. To know the exact year and type of engine is a must for my brain. Thank you for any feed back!
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  #4  
Old 01-07-2007, 04:37 PM
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I doubt they consider the newer glowplugs a problem with regard to their ' direct replacement ' description...and it might be better to just wire those up and not worry about it if that is the only difference.... you would probably change to them at some time in the future anyway...I would wire it up to a normally off switch inside the car ( activating a relay of course ) .... that would eliminate the glow plug light, timer, etc ... just things wanting to go bad in my opinion.
There should be a list somewhere of the serial numbers of the engines placed into which VIN number automobiles...
but I really think that if your doubts have to do with ordering the proper camshaft that that can be done according to the engine number....
Since you are Normal Aspirated... do you have a copy of the 616,617NA factory shop manual ? It shows what to do to put the stronger journal cams into the older engines.
And it gives the rules about the hardened cam followers/valve caps/type of camshaft pairings...
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  #5  
Old 01-07-2007, 05:49 PM
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The independant MB mechanic that put the engine in created a glow plug harness when he put the engine in. Richard re-did this harness for me recently because the other one was a little flimsy. That works great! I am still searching for a translation of these numbers on the block. I have no idea where to find this list and I am searching all over the web as well as forums. I sent the numbers posted to diesel giant and he responded with that I do not have all of the numbers. I have 10 and there should be 14. I'm going to crawl under the car to see if I can find any more numbers somewhere else. Ordering in a 1979 300D camshaft would have been automatic if the engine did not have pencil glow plugs! Thanks for letting me know that they could have been changed! I only have a Haynes manual for the 300D 1977-1985. This is what Richard used to remove the camshaft. I would really like to traslate those numbers though!
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T.C.
1979 300D non-turbo silver
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  #6  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:30 PM
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Are you sure the pencil plugs are not the conversion plugs put in place of an original series set? The thread size is different on the conversion pencil plugs (same as the series plugs) than on the pencil plugs that are original equipment.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:47 PM
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Have you looked for numbers on the end of the camshaft ?
That should give you enough for the parts house to order .... or to upgrade to since some are no longer offered..only the better ones installed in engines later...
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2007, 06:57 PM
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You know on 25 year old cars and engines it is much safer to use the cam numbers OR actually measure the important cam parts... measure each journal , the total height of all the lobes... then send those measurements to the parts guy and tell them you want exactly the same cam...
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2007, 12:44 AM
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I do have the numbers from the end towers and the shaft itself. Is there another number if the towers are removed? Richard measured the journals today. They averaged around 48.95 mm. Now that I understand that the head could have been changed, it's a bit clearer. I think that the lower engine parts were the same for a a 3 year period of time. I looked into re-building before purchasing a replacement engine. What a crash course I have put myself through over the Mercedes. I enjoy driving the car and just having her so it has been worth the "education". This forum is amazing for help and knowledge! There is a lifetime more to know...Sincere thanks. Will post.
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T.C.
1979 300D non-turbo silver
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2007, 04:16 AM
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O.K. guys, I am now truly aspirated. My camshaft journal measurements are 48.93-48.95. This translates in the w123 Haynes manual to a code 10. On a link on this forum about timing chains a Code 10 translates to these 2 engines...A w123 615.940 44kw 200D, A w123 616.912 53kw 220D and I think a 240D. The engine does have pencil glow plugs but I understand that they could have been converted on this forum. The engine ID number is not under #5 glow plug beside the oil filter housing. I can only find the block # that starts with 617. Could it be on back of the block?
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T.C.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2007, 04:02 PM
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^^ those no.'s that you came up with-ie #10 and 616, 615 are 4 cylinder engines. sounds like yours is a 5? obviously, the cams are different....

good luck.
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2007, 08:37 PM
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Yes...It is a 5 cylinder and I now know that the 200's are 4 cylinder. I am now dealing with the company that I bought the engine from out of Houston. The engine ID #(14 digits that should start with 617.912) is just not where it should be. I am getting a run around from the company at this point...I will continue to pursue that but any knowlege about the year etc. from above info. will be greatly appreciated!
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T.C.
1979 300D non-turbo silver
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2007, 02:37 PM
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I have not found the 14 digit engine ID. It is not where it should be for sure! Company in Houston where engine came from had the vin# listed as a 2001? Not Not Not. IF they have the Engine ID#, they will not tell me, very rude...???? I did get the camshaft info. from the parts department at A Better Wrench. It is a later model cam that has the journal measurements of 48.92mm-48.95mm that indicates that the engine is an 80 or 81. If anyone knows how to pinpoint the differences in the 617.912 please let me know or are they the same?
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