G'mornin' Folks,

I posted the following in another thread yesterday, did not get any input.....but the thread did not have the specific topic.....

I am considering replacing some of my automotive lights with LED replacement bulbs.....but the question is.......

In this first link you will see all of the Tail and Stop light bulb replacements....
http://www.superbrightleds.com/tail-brake-turn.html


the second item down, the 24 LED (R1156 R24), replaces #1156 Bulb in Tail and Stop Lamps, is one possibility....
http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/1157-x24.htm

the third item down, the 30 LED (R1156 R30), replaces #1156 Bulb in Tail and Stop Lamps,is another possibility....
http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/1156-x30.htm

the fourth item down, the 3watt Luxeon (R1156 RLX3), replaces #1156 Bulb in Tail and Stop Lamps, is yet another possibility....
http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/115x-xLX3.htm

the sixth item down, the 9 and 15 LED (67 R9 & 67 R15), replaces a #67 Bulb, is also a possibility for Tail lights only
http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/67.htm

It's in the mid 20*F outside.....so I have not done any measuring.....
I would like to know what you folks know or think about these possible choices.......

Thanx
SB

__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG

Replacement with these may cause you lamp out indicator light to go on. Let us know what happens if you go for it.

__________________
1999 E300DT (131,800) 154,000 Black on Black SOLD

2006 CLK 500 coupe Capri Blue on Grey (zoom,zoom)
47,000mi

04 VW TDI Passat 80,000mi
(Techno)

How to eliminate oil dependency through market-driven approaches.
“We could cut oil use in half by 2025, and by 2040, oil use could be zero,”
The Sound of Diesel Speed
Ode to MB

I don't think any of the possible choices will work well.

First off, if the bulb needs to be inserted through the rear, most of them will not fit through (I have a 300td and the lens/reflector are one piece).

Secondly, and more importantly, despite their statement "super wide 130 degree beam angle" -- that really only tells you that the pattern is viewable over that angle. It's really BS to say it will "illuminate (the) entire tail light lens," as a single LED will still show up pretty much as a spot source because the lens isn't translucent/frosted and the physics of a clear lens isn't going to suddenly change and make the light bend in a different manner just by hoping it will. The only reason the stock illumination is near-constant exiting the lens is a combination of the point source of the bulb, the reflector pattern, and the lens pattern. A point-source LED throws all that out of whack. As to a single Luxeon being bright enough: even if it would provide illumination, it doesn't put out sufficient light. I've got a few of them in my basement "lair" where I do my projects and can tell you that while they are indeed impressive, an array of less-powerful LEDs will give more usable light.

As I've said in this thread, I can make custom setups for our cars. After investigating the 300td's housing last weekend, I know that the boards I use for BMWs will work for the 300td. No, they wouldn't be cheap (an anathema to many of the denizens of this board), but they would be far superior to the plug-in variety.

I just wish folks would finally "get off the pot" and buy some of these plug-in LED replacements and see how they (don't) work.

Do any W123s have those? His MB is a '85 300D. In any case, the sensing circuit can be duped. If the MBs use reed relays like BMWs, you can simply run a jumper across the reed relay like I've done here:

What we need is an LED bulb with most of the leds pointing out the sides to illuminate the reflector and still be small enough in diameter to fit thru the hole in the reflector.

Their 1156-R24 Wide angle is probably the closest but would be better if it had more leds pointing out and less pointing out the end.

The other choice would be an LED lamp that uses a Luxeon Side Emitter.

__________________
Ron Schroeder
'85 300 Turbo Diesel 2 tank WVO
'83 300 Turbo Diesel 2 tank WVO
Some former WVO vehicles since ~1980:
'83 Mercedes 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 ISUZU Pup
'70 SAAB 99 with Kubota diesel
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota diesel
'86 Golf
Several diesel generators
All with 2 tank WVO conversion
LI NY

dont know, but the one sthat are on the shelf at autozone dont seem to much larger diameter thatn a regular 1156/1157.

__________________
1984 123.193 372,xxx miles, room for Seven.

1999 Dodge Durango Cummins 4BTAA 47RE 5k lb 4x4 getting 25+mpgs, room for Seven.

What Shawn has said is spot-on.
Regardless of whether there is a side output, or multiple side-output arrays as I've seen in some LED "replacement" bulbs, the simple matter is that the tail-lamps etc. are designed for a bulb that puts out light in all directions as an incandescent bulb does, which includes 90* from straight, 150* from straight, 15* from straight, etc. The lense and reflector are designed to a) collect all of this light output from the bulb, and b) disperse this light at all viewing angles and at light levels that comply with FMVSS.

Without re-designing the reflector, creating a large array of lights that wouldn't likely fit in the space, or using a high-output light source through a lense that will direct the light to all of the tail-lamp lense's optics at the right angle for proper dispersion, this is not likely to happen. Similar problem with the many Ebay HID "conversion" lights in headlamps, different type and shape of light source messes up the optics.

With proper ray-tracing software I've seen some great lense and reflector designs that take advantage of the output of LEDs and other light sources, and proper measurement equipment will prove out a reasonable conversion of existing lights. Personally, I think that you're better off finding the source of the voltage drop in the tail-lamps that you have, or as we've done in some older BlueBirds running relays with clean power to run tail-lamps at full-brightness. The light fixtures that your car has were at one time bright, if they aren't fix 'em.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

I have looked at the subject of using LED's to replace incandescents in auto lamps and the only place I would use one is the third brake light on the rear shelf, because it serves basically the vehicle following the car and the light pattern is fairly defined as about 30 degrees off center to the left and right of center of the vehicle, and the LED's seem to work acceptably under this criteria.

When someone develops an LED array that fits in an outline that is the same as what the existing glass bulb is, I may try one but until then there isn't anything I would use in place of a regular old bulb for turn signals or stop lights.

The acts that some people do, like putting blue bulbs in their turn signals and installing LED's behind aftermarket blacked out lens leaves a car that should be cited for violation of SAE/safety rules. Besides that it looks downright awful!

__________________
'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

I was afraid of the results that have been discussed thus far......

Please note...that I have no "low voltage" problems....and my stock tail lamps are all working perfectly......

I was just looking into a possible High Tec solution to brightening up the tail lights a tad......and when I got to looking at that website to see what is available, I got a bit confused as to what should or would work......

Also note the prices on those featured in the website are about 1/3 of what they charge for a similar item at my local Autozone......

SB

__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG

Also the thing to remember about LEDs, is use red ones in the red lenses. The white ones do not light up the red lens very well.

I put them on my bike as a test and found the red ones lit up the brake/tail lens just fine. The white ones did not. Using white or amber in the amber lenses resulted in no difference. The LED's wer a bit brighter than the regular bulbs.

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RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

Several places in the owners manual indicates replacement with OEM bulbs only. I know, I thought that was strange even back in '82 when I bought the old traktor, but I've never had any issues by following that guide.

Typically, I will go by the book when it come to risking anthing electrical ...for hardware such as metal parts I'll try a generic manufacturer as soon as the OEM.

I have read of minor MB issues related to deviations from using OEM bulbs and for the life of me I cannot understand how using different bulbs would/could affect the Tachometer/dash lights/courtesy light /or HVAC operation. Has anyone experienced this problem condition?

I thought I read it in the ShopForum but can't find it...or can't remember

__________________
Bama1


2008 SLK 280, Firemist Red - "Hurricane"
2001 F150 Lariat 4x4, Black on Black - "Badboy"
1982 240D 4 speed survivor -"Pearl" - Donated to Vietnam Veterans
1962 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 -"Gertrude"

1954 model original owner - ~2.5M
Gray softtop/solid exterior/modified chassis

You might check http://www.superbrightleds.com. I have one of their 1W white XLamps and it is extremely bright (probably too bright).. the heat sink is sized to just about fit into the reflector of a 2-AA maglight flashlight, so it might fit. They do come in colors.

They also sell LEDs with a full-sphere radiation pattern, but they are not bright enough alone making the solution bulky.

Neither are plug-n-play replacements, but shouldn't be hard to adapt (bayonet base plus resistor plus mechanical).

__________________
'83 300DTurbo http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/318559.png

Broadband: more lies faster.

The best way I have found to do this is to epoxy the LEDs directly to the inside of the lens with clear epoxy. I have done this to a 93 Silverado and they were very bright and a very even light (like the caddy tails). Once the resistor setup was completed, I had to swap in a variable load flasher to maintain the correct flash rate. I bought the lights in bulk at an online electronics outlet. . As soon as I get the MB painted this will be next my mod.