Jump starting-Not to neg bat term---Why?
 

Correct Procedure:
Connect positive terminals of both batteries.
Connect negative terminal of booster battery to a good ground of the vehicle to be started. In other words not directly to the neg terminal of the car to be started.
This is what I've been told.
This is what the Haynes manual says.
I think I read it in the Mercedes manual also.
Why? I don't know. Can anybody explain this to me?
Why not to the neg terminal of the car to be started? There is probably only a few milliohms difference between the neg terminal and its ground. Electrically its almost the same point. I have a portable jump starter battery that has a switch to apply power after the cables are connected. I recently used it to give someone in a Toyota a jump start. It was dark, cold and I really couldn't find a good ground in the Toyota other than the neg battery terminal. In addition the cables on the jump starter are short so there really aren't too many options where you can connect to ground. Even with long jumper cables there don't seem to be good grounds available. So it went on the neg terminal. Toyota started without incident. What could have happened? How do you guys jump cars? :oops:

I believe that procedure is designed to avoid a spark in the vicinity of potentially explosive battery gases. If power is only applied after attaching the portable jumper, there is a low liklihood of a spark.

This is what I have been told concerning using a ground other than the negative battery post. Batteries can give off gases which, if ignited, can explode. When the last cable is connected, it can give off sparks which could ignite gases, thus causing explosion. I have seen the sparks many times. Some people I know even look for sparks to see if they have a good connection. This is what I have always been told.

As far as I know it is meant to prevent either battery mishaps or damaging electrical systems.

Yeah it works both ways but written instructions need to consider LAW SUITS.

:)

my uncle lived half his life with a huge burn on his right cheek from doing it that way. had his face been any closer, he might have suffered damage to his eyes. batteries DO explode, just not as often as you would think. be safe and use the ground....not the negative post.

Best place to ground the neg cable?

On an related battery safety issue. . . I was working on a car in the mid 60's with a friend who was wearing a watch with an expandable metal band. He inadvertently touched the metal band to the positive post of the battery and the car body. The band then became a conductor, welding itself at both ends and getting red hot. My friend now has a permanent expandable-watchband-shaped scar on his left wrist.

On new cars they usually hide the battery and put ports that are labeled to where you can attach a jumper cable.

Usually just attach the positive to the battery and the negative to any huge metal part.

Batteries can emit Hydrogen. Making the last connection (where a spark is likely to occur) away from the battery prevents this:

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/museum/...hindenburg.jpg

The good news is a dead battery is less acidic than a charged battery.

I was watching two people jump a car once and I heard a loud BOOM. I looked over and the battery had exploded. They were lucky none of them were near it.

Danny

I do not agree with a battery being less acidic. That thing is full of sulfuric acid. Water dilutes it, while a base like baking soda neutralizes it.

The explosions are the result of the hydrogen gas being ignited by a spark.

Agree or not, it's a fact that you can easily measure. The ions are fused to the plates during the discharge, resulting in a much lower concentration of acid.

If you connect the neg cable last, and disconnect it first, it shouldn't spark, should it? I know electrons flow from neg to pos but the current flows from the pos and I've never seen the neg cable spark, say when reattaching it to the battery with the pos cable already attached.

I could rationalize it if it was the pos cable, because I've seen it spark many times, but never the neg.

I have seen the negative spark as well, because of bad connection or by going slow to connect.

As far as the battery acid being weaker, do a litmus test on it and look at the ph level. The sulfuric acid is about 12m when added, then diluted a little with water. Either way, the acid will burn you.

I never said a discharged battery has no acid in it or it's safe for a discharged battery to blow up in your face.
All I said was a discharged battery is less acidic than charged battery. I don't know what you tried with your litmus paper but you can't argue with the laws of chemistry. When a battery discharges the hydrogen atoms fuse to the lead plates causing a less acidic solution. That is a fact whether you choose to believe it or not.

Anything else you get out of that your making up.

No one ever said you did, and nothing is being made up. It's all physics and chemical properties. The stronger the acid, the lower the ph number. That is basic chemistry. I took only two years of chemistry in college 20 years ago, so I do not remember everything about it. It is fascinating stuff though

Ever work on an acid etch line? I have. The semi conductor mfgs use the 12m stuff. We used sulfuric, acetic, nitric, hydrochloric, and hydroflouric acids. I never want to do that again. Those college jobs are not all fun and joy, but you do learn stuff.

When ever I hook up jumper cables I always turn my head away from the battery when I make the last connection. This way if you have made a mistake and the battery does explode only the back of your head is damaged. Not your face.

yeah, most people dont value the back of their head much.
:D

A place where I formerly worked had a shelf for charging batteries. The shelf acted as an enclosure. One day, as I unhooked a battery from the charger--without unplugging the charger first, I got an arc, and ignition of the gases. It was quite a shock, and quite a noise.

I need to correct this one. Everything sparks when connected. It doesn't matter whether it pos or neg, they will spark the same. A good rule of thumb (in open air) is that an arc will jump 10,000 volts per inch. If your spark plug wire is producing 10,000 volts, it will arc when held an inch away from the block. Likewise, a jumper cable will arc as it approaches a battery post, but obviously the arc occurs when it is very close to the post, given that a battery is only 12 volts.

Electron flow IS current flow. Technically is does flow from neg to pos, but we can't witness that in any way in our daily lives. We decided arbitrarily way back when to assign pos and neg nomenclature.

Since the act of charging a battery generates hydrogen, I would speculate that it is more dangerous to remove a jumper cable after charging has occurred, and there is significant hydrogen in the area of the battery, hence the reasoning for the last connection (and first dis-connection) occuring away from the battery.

Also, your starter is grounded to the block, so a neg connection to the block will be a more solid connection for the starter when cranking, than to the battery and through the ground strap to the block.

Thanks

Thats cause you cant see it. Which explains this http://www.mulletsgalore.com/