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  #1  
Old 02-03-2007, 03:38 PM
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Today I learned to drive stick...in a 240D!

Pending arrival of some Jetta TDI in the near future, I took it upon myself to learn to drive stickshift. Fortunately, a friend of mine has a 1980 240D in the vicinity of 235k miles, equipped with the manual trans. All I can say is.....WOW!! That car is fun to drive!! Despite its low power I found myself exceeding speed limits around town in a way I usually don't in my E300. It is definitely more engaging to drive than the auto trans E300!

My one gripe was having to bury the acclerator in the carpet trying to reach 65 mph on an onramp....that's where the 240's low hp showed. WOIP in my E300 results in easily exceeding 80 mph (as well as a "kick in the pants"), without showing any signs of slowing down. In the middle of New Mexico I once took it up to 120 mph where it felt right at home!

After driving the 240D my preference has definitely been switched to manual transmission cars, and I am eagerly awaiting finding a suitable Jetta TDI!

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  #2  
Old 02-03-2007, 06:16 PM
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Jetta info

Quote:
Originally Posted by BioPOWER View Post
I am eagerly awaiting finding a suitable Jetta TDI!
In addition to a manual transmission option, the Jetta also offers a pretty nifty "direct shift" option called DSG. Here's a blurb on it from about.com:
The DSG is essentially two 3-speed gearboxes with a pair of clutches. When the driver starts out, transmission #1 is in first gear and transmission #2 is in second. The clutch engages and the car starts out in first. When it's time to change gears, the DSG uses the clutches to swap transmissions. The #1 transmission immediately shifts to third gear. At the next change the DSG swaps transmissions again, and #2 shifts to fourth. The DSG's computerized controller calculates the next likely gearchange and shifts the "idle" transmission into that gear. The advantage is the speed of gearchanges: The DSG takes about 8 milliseconds to upshift. Compare that to the SMT in the Ferrari Enzo, which takes 150 ms to upshift. It's also significantly faster than a human: According to Audi, the A3 runs 0-60 in 6.9 seconds with a 6-speed manual and 6.7 seconds with the 6-speed DSG. Like the SMT, the DSG performs double-clutch downshifts and can skip gears (i.e. downshifting from 6th directly to 4th, 3rd, etc).
Also, here's an article about the new diesel version of the Jetta which may be the first diesel passenger car in over a decade able to meet CA emissions standards:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119327

Sounds like it may be worth waiting for...
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2007, 06:20 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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a 240 is about the easiest car to learn to drive a stick on that i can imagine.

the clutch is very predictalbe and soft in action. the engine has a lot of torque and the shifter works like a charm. i taught perhaps all five of my kids to drive a stick on a 240.

ease the clutch out and then accelerate. with any care at all you won't stall it.

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holthoff View Post
In addition to a manual transmission option, the Jetta also offers a pretty nifty "direct shift" option called DSG.
I've heard great things about the DSG, and would love to have one, but I have two problems:

1. They don't have the clutch pedal and lack that "true" manual feeling

2. I'm looking for a MkIV '05 Jetta TDI (old style); the '05-'07 MkV Jettas are the only ones available with DSG. Unfortunately they just look too much like a Corolla for my tastes. The MkIV is much more "German."
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  #5  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:43 AM
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I too learned how to drive a stick in a 240D. I guess it was ok for the most part, but there is this certain speed you can hit somewhere around 10-15 MPH in second gear where a clutch noob can get the car to buck like a wild horse.

What year TDI you looking at? The MkV Jetta is a pretty nice ride. I drove one for about a week while my Golf was in the shop. Yes I did walk right over to the VW preowned lot to see how much the MkV Jetta TDI was selling for, whooo boy they're pricey.

You've got to get a gasser if you want DSG.
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2007, 02:33 AM
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Those W123 240D manuals are just right.....no notchy feel, the throws are just right, they are really fun. Not like some manuals, that feel like stirring a broomstick in oatmeal.

You might note that a VERY highly regarded fellow diesel forum member Zack K. "Boardmonger" down the road from you in San Jose is reluctantly selling his 1981 gray market euro spec 300D W123 manual. These cars are really scarce, and his is a really nice one. All the 240 D advantages PLUS the euro heater controls, bumers and the other advantages you'd get with a euro W123 car. It has records even back to Germany, and has been licensed in Calif. since 1984 I think, the direct MB shop link is in his signature. You really ought to think about looking about that car....I'd get it myself if I had a need for another car and a place to put one
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2007, 02:44 AM
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I'd like to drive an MB manual... they sound pretty good. I would have though a 240D would be tricky to learn how to drive stick on. These mechanical injection diesels require more go pedal than most cars to move. Myself, I learned on my mom's brand spankin new Miata. I wasn't too bad, but for the longest time I was afraid of "riding the clutch" so I'd get off the clutch ASAP and the car would buck. The Miata's gearshift makes pretty much every car i've driven shift like you're stirring a spoon through a bucket of marbles though, it's a beautiful thing that Mazda designed.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2007, 05:31 AM
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i learned on a 59 rambler american with three speeds and no synchro.

they buck too!

i have never known of a manual tranny car that won't buck for a novice or even occasionally for the rest of us too.

the solution is always the same, according to my mom....floor it son!

tom w
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2007, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
i learned on a 59 rambler american with three speeds and no synchro.

they buck too!

i have never known of a manual tranny car that won't buck for a novice or even occasionally for the rest of us too.

the solution is always the same, according to my mom....floor it son!

tom w
Haha.. I tried that and left a 6 foot patch of rubber. I thought my mom would yell at me but I peaked over and saw her smiling.

pst: anyone in the norcal area, lemme drive your stick
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2007, 05:40 AM
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Don't get too hasty in saying that you have learned how to drive a standard/manual transmission......it will take a bit of time, and some practice.....have you tried stopping and starting on hills???

I learned on a brand new '61 Chevy Wagon, 6 cyl, 3 on the column......my mom would make me do the hillside thing at various stop signs.....one time, when I had a vehicle behind, and one of my younger brothers standing on the rear seat.......I was afraid of rolling back into the car behind, and didn't want to stall or buck....so I gave it a bit too much gas....shot away from that stop sign, and my brother went from the rear seat into the tailgate window.....didn't break that window, but he was never truly "right" after that....

It's funny, those li'l things that one never forgets.......

SB

Guys, If I had turned 16 a few months before...I would have learned to drive in a "Henry J"........
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Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2007, 09:32 AM
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I learned to drive manual in a '51 Chevy P/U. 3 on the tree and a pedal that felt like it had a trampoline spring on it. we call it straight drive though, not manual or stick. Try starting that on a hill. lol
I havent been able to drive a MB manual yet. I couldnt even find one when i was looking to buy.
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2007, 10:16 AM
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Tex, It couldn't have been too bad....no hills in Houston.....and if you lived a bit outside of Houston, like Laporte or somethin.....weren't even many stop signs.....even only 20 or 30 years ago.....

SB
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Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2007, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorebilly View Post
Tex, It couldn't have been too bad....no hills in Houston.....and if you lived a bit outside of Houston, like Laporte or somethin.....weren't even many stop signs.....even only 20 or 30 years ago.....

SB
ha, right, too bad...im from north carolina/south carolina though. ive only been in texas for 2 years. two of the longest years of my life.
and hey, houston has hills. they call them the overpasses on I45.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retx View Post
ha, right, too bad...im from north carolina/south carolina though. ive only been in texas for 2 years. two of the longest years of my life.
and hey, houston has hills. they call them the overpasses on I45.
I figured you must have been from over here... only place in the states I have heard anybody call a manual a "straight drive" drives my dad nuts... "why a straight drive, it's the automatic that has a straight shifter..."
I learned in South Dakota in the early 80's driving an 67 dodge pickup, (and I still have that monster) on the farm... hard to buck with foot floored and rear tires spinning in the dirt.
John
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2007, 12:56 PM
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i think they say that because you can go straight from gear to gear. i dont really know. its just what we called it. do you say tomato or tomato.
my aunt has lived in mt holly all her life. i spent plenty of time growing up there. (gastonia, shelby, kings mountain, ranlo, charlotte. etc)
actually one of the most fun "manuals" i ever drove was a n 86 toyota MR2. so spunky and fun. mid engines are mostly like that though. but it was so fun to drive.

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