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-   -   How to Set IP Timing via the Drip Tube Method - Pictorial (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/178349-how-set-ip-timing-via-drip-tube-method-pictorial.html)

Diesel911 05-12-2025 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo (Post 4359032)
there is a picture (#6) that shows a mark....... where is that? front of IP or rear of IP orrr?

I have an engine supposedly rebuilt, Prior to installing it fell over (was on ground.. fell to one side). This made me fear it may have moved pump and pushed it out of time.

Got it installed.... engine runs with massive smoke... (its been a year got not garage... weather got bad.... had to stop. Now weather good so getting back to it.... Im outside under tarp) seem to recall it was Grey smoke.... further reading now says that is IP timing possibly sooooooo could be my fear came true.

Anyway... reading few places let me back to this great page and this ancient thread. Mayyyyyyybe person marked the pump location as discussed .... thus my question... Where would this mark be. up front or in back. hard as hell to see anything in there.

is there any other generic place to measure that would clue me in to.... "ohhh that pump is way off as setting" like how far in inches from part X of pump to Y (block?) would be redflag its way the freak off.

I think you ought to find yourself a manual and not a Haynes manual. If you are going to do the job by reading here, you need to do a lot of reading till you understand it full.

I worked in a fuel injection shop for 5 years and did this sort of timing more than frequently. It is much easier to show someone compared to telling it which takes a lot of writing.

I won't do the whole thing but start with the fuel injection pump has been removed from the engine and you don't know if the engine is liked up properly any more.

You need to rotate the engine till the it is coming up on the degree mark for timing on the compression stroke. You locate the compression stroke by watching the intake valve. On my 84 300D that is 24 degrees plus or minus one degree before top dead center on the compression stroke.

You will need to find a picture if this. There are 2 missing splines on the drive end of the fuel injection pump drive shaft and that lines up with the timing mark on the front bearing cap of the pump. Since you have previously lined up the engine you only need to carefully stick the fuel injection pump in.

When you do that, you want the studs in the middle of the kidney slots on the fuel injection pump flange. And you tighten the pump down. After bleeding the air out of the system properly engine can run like that.

After that you are ready to fine tune with the drip method.

I scribed a mark across the block and the upper outer fuel injection pump flange as a reference so I could return it there if the drip timing was not going as planned. Remember that starting point the engine was running.

OK you need to read a bunch of drip timing threads. See if I commented on that in the threads.
When you rotate the fuel injection pump and you look at your marks never move it more than 1/16ths from your mark. Sug the pump down so it will not rotate and start pumping on the hand primer to bring up the pressure and at the highest pressure count the drips per second. You keep repeating that small rotation, snugging and pumping with the hand primer till you get the correct drips per second. When it is correct tighten all of the fuel injection pump flange nuts and you are done.

Bleed the system of air again and try to start.

Big mistakes people make during drip timing is they rotate the pump too much and they go past the sweet spot and next is the method of pressurizing the fuel is not consistent.

Fuel Pressure: If you have low pressure, you have less drips and that gives you a false reading. You are not counting the drips till you are sure you are pumping on the hand primer a lot to bring that pressure up and you are constantly getting the same number of drips per second while pumping.

Note that the above is not an extensive write up on the subject.

coachgeo 05-12-2025 01:58 PM

Curious

Merdedeszource High pressure method.. if you have an electric aux fuel pump on the engine already... would this do the same thing as using the pressure tank set up he describes (sorta describes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8vvtS8SGto

coachgeo 05-12-2025 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 4359201)
........
Big mistakes people make during drip timing is they rotate the pump too much and they go past the sweet spot and next is the method of pressurizing the fuel is not consistent.

Fuel Pressure: If you have low pressure, you have less drips and that gives you a false reading. You are not counting the drips till you are sure you are pumping on the hand primer a lot to bring that pressure up and you are constantly getting the same number of drips per second while pumping.

Note that the above is not an extensive write up on the subject.

Super Thanks. Have watched and read things 100 times off and on over the decades and again recent. Been around these 617 for decades off and on so not a newb to the concept.... but only to the hands on doing it.

look forward to replies to specificity of questions (tools, Aux. pump, any red or green flags, in pump position to look for as it sits now etc.). Got delayed in doing things over the weekend.... Dog mauled my hand on Fri. Am right handed.. and right hand now not working so well.

coachgeo 07-01-2025 04:31 PM

Trying to time now

_got engine at around 24.5.
_Got rabbit ears on #1 cam lobes (rabbit's head slightly tilted to the right) valves look open
_Got spring removed from below #1 IP inject line / valve holder
_Got plunger (but not barrel) removed from IP (SHOULD BARREL come out too???????) aka what is "Valve" to remove?? is "Valve considered" just the plunger or both plunger and the barrel it sits in?
-Got the drip line installed.
-Got vacuum line(s) pulled.
_got fuel lever pulled to max

with a pumping of primer a steady flow of fuel no matter where IP is rotated too.... comes out.... can minutely see a pulse.... but no dripping.

little help please ASAP.

Diesel911 07-03-2025 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo (Post 4364491)
Trying to time now

_got engine at around 24.5.
_Got rabbit ears on #1 cam lobes (rabbit's head slightly tilted to the right) valves look open
_Got spring removed from below #1 IP inject line / valve holder
_Got plunger (but not barrel) removed from IP (SHOULD BARREL come out too???????) aka what is "Valve" to remove?? is "Valve considered" just the plunger or both plunger and the barrel it sits in?
-Got the drip line installed.
-Got vacuum line(s) pulled.
_got fuel lever pulled to max

with a pumping of primer a steady flow of fuel no matter where IP is rotated too.... comes out.... can minutely see a pulse.... but no dripping.

little help please ASAP.

Don't touch the barrel and if you have a MW type fuel injection pump don't touch the I think 13mm nuts on either side of it.

Did you have the fuel injection pump off of the engine?

I the manual the throttle lever is wired into the full fuel position which you need to release before you start it. I am old enough I tie a note to my steering wheel.

You can disconnect the fuel shutoff vacuum to make sure there is no vacuum there and there should be none.

If you marked the position of the fuel injection pump return it to that and start over.

I was fortunate enough to work in a diesel fuel injection shop and my boss let me try it on my own and the subsequent frustrations. He finally told me what to do. It is one of those deals that is a pain till you learn how to do it.

Did you find any youtube videos on how to do it?

coachgeo 07-04-2025 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 4364657)
Don't touch the barrel and if you have a MW type fuel injection pump don't touch the I think 13mm nuts on either side of it.

Did you have the fuel injection pump off of the engine?

I the manual the throttle lever is wired into the full fuel position which you need to release before you start it. I am old enough I tie a note to my steering wheel.

You can disconnect the fuel shutoff vacuum to make sure there is no vacuum there and there should be none.

If you marked the position of the fuel injection pump return it to that and start over.

I was fortunate enough to work in a diesel fuel injection shop and my boss let me try it on my own and the subsequent frustrations. He finally told me what to do. It is one of those deals that is a pain till you learn how to do it.

Did you find any youtube videos on how to do it?

put a check beside all these as done... EXCEPT..... IP removed from engine. NO I have not...... but that does not mean the engine rebuilder did not install it off a tooth and NO did not touch the Nuts on IP and move that in anyway.

With so many unknown variables in this situation (engine never run by anyone for more than 20min.. I need some way to check timing that is not as dependent on so many other variables being "correct" as well too.. soooooo..... ordered a China-Clone of a Sealy IP line pulse detector / converter box- to timing light Flash. Just posted a thread on this to verify few things

Diesel911 07-08-2025 01:41 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo (Post 4364687)
put a check beside all these as done... EXCEPT..... IP removed from engine. NO I have not...... but that does not mean the engine rebuilder did not install it off a tooth and NO did not touch the Nuts on IP and move that in anyway.

With so many unknown variables in this situation (engine never run by anyone for more than 20min.. I need some way to check timing that is not as dependent on so many other variables being "correct" as well too.. soooooo..... ordered a China-Clone of a Sealy IP line pulse detector / converter box- to timing light Flash. Just posted a thread on this to verify few things

OK. There is an item called a timing locking pin. In order for it to be used you need to have a plug down towards the bottom of the governor or the tool won't fit.

The holes the tool go into can look different. But in the first pic you see a hole with inside a blade. That blade is what catches the tool.

The next picture is the tool itself. They are cheap these days on eBay and Amazon.

The timing locking pin tool is not made for the purpose I will describe. It is made for you to stick in when the pump is removed from the engine. When used it holds locks the pump camshaft in position so that it cannot move and change the timing while you stick the pump in. However, if you look on the timing area of the emission sticker on your car it references on After Top Dead Center. On mine it is 15 degrees ATDC plus or minus something.

In your case you would get some sort of jar or bowel and get a 17mm wrench and remove the plug. Some oil will come out. About a cup of it.

Leave the hole open and rotate the engine in the direction of normal rotation and watch those engine camshaft lobes to go to 24 degrees before top dead center on the compression stroke. For now, leave it there

The timing locking pin has to be oriented correctly. On the outside of it is a small screwdriver like slot. You thread the tool inside all the way in and you look at that slot. The slot needs to be rotated so it is horizontal.

Here is the delicate part. You need to slowly and genteelly manual turn the engine in the direction of ration trying to feel when the pump locks and you will see that part with the screwdriver slot push out before it locks.

When it locks if it is timed correctly, you will look down at the crank damper pointer and see that it is in my case on 15 degrees after top dead center. At that point it is locked as in the last pic with the drawing.

If it is not locked at that point if you want, you can continue to rotate in the directing of rotation. till it locks. All that is going to give you is a real idea that it is out of timed.

Some people turn the engine to the after top dead center setting after the compression stroke and just look in the hole to see if they can see the tab/blade as in the first pic. They try to see if it is somewhat centered in the hole indicating the timing is at least close.

If you don't see the tab/blade. Recheck that you did the after top dead center on the compression stroke thing again to make sure you did it proper. If you still cannot see the tab/blade the fuel pump timing is off.

Note that older fuel injection pumps don't have the large hole for this type of timing locking pin.

Diesel911 07-08-2025 02:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This is a pic of the emission sticker on my federal 84 Mercedes 300D.

The part outlined in red is the timing specs when using the Timing Locking Pin, The A&B light other demining methods that use that side port on the governor to insert the tool into.

By the way this stuff is tedious to explain in words.

coachgeo 07-08-2025 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 4365109)
OK. There is an item called a timing locking pin. In order for it to be used you need to have a plug down towards the bottom of the governor or the tool won't fit.

The holes the tool go into can look different. But in the first pic you see a hole with inside a blade. That blade is what catches the tool.

The next picture is the tool itself. They are cheap these days on eBay and Amazon.....

orderd locking pin few days ago.

I have a port .... thinkkkkkkk it is a RIV one??? see post three and four

https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/4365131-post3.html

coachgeo 07-08-2025 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911 (Post 4365114)
This is a pic of the emission sticker on my federal 84 Mercedes 300D.

The part outlined in red is the timing specs when using the Timing Locking Pin, The A&B light other demining methods that use that side port on the governor to insert the tool into.

By the way this stuff is tedious to explain in words.

Thanks. Guess it would be same.. This 617 is transplanted into different vehicle.

Diesel911 07-08-2025 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo (Post 4365134)
orderd locking pin few days ago.

I have a port .... thinkkkkkkk it is a RIV one??? see post three and four

https://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/4365131-post3.html

The port is the same.

vox_incognita 07-09-2025 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coachgeo (Post 4364491)
Trying to time now

_got engine at around 24.5. BTDC, compression stroke
_Got rabbit ears on #1 cam lobes (rabbit's head slightly tilted to the right) valves look open (Valves should be closed. #1 cyl. cam lobes pointing sky)
_Got spring removed from below #1 IP inject line / valve holder
_Got plunger (but not barrel) removed from IP (SHOULD BARREL come out too???????) aka what is "Valve" to remove?? is "Valve considered" just the plunger or both plunger and the barrel it sits in?
-Got the drip line installed.
-Got vacuum line(s) pulled.
_got fuel lever pulled to max

with a pumping of primer a steady flow of fuel no matter where IP is rotated too.... comes out.... can minutely see a pulse.... but no dripping.

little help please ASAP.

...

As for DV assembly , one can bump into different terms used.

DV (assembly) = body+plunger(stem).
Some call "Delivery valve" just the stem(plunger).

Here the DV body is named a "carrier", while the stem is called...well, a "delivery valve".

https://www.tonk.ca/models/w123/w123CD2/Program/Engine/617/07_1-110.pdf

But yes-the "stem"(plunger) and spring removed,"body" remains in place.


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