I don't think dribbling cold oil through the drain passages will clean much sludge. Particularly when you see sludge on the bottom of the oil filler cap On the couple of unknown sludgy engines I've dealt with (non MBs), I ran Mobil 1 until the engine was clean or got no cleaner. 3 or 4 cycles was enough for me. On a disposable engine (non MB) I'll even try a can of Rislone (why does everyone say Risolene?).

Sixto
93 300SD 3.0

The question of whether to use a topsider-like device or the old fashioned way really misses the point. The fact is you guys are changing your oil way too frequently and that is a terrible waste.

The fact is with synthetic diesel oil, you don't have to change your oil but once every 20 to 30k miles, if you pull the filter every 10-15k miles.

One poster here indicates it's a waste to buy a topsider but changes the oil every 3k miles. Somehow dumping $100 worth of oil a year that's perfectly fine is OK but spending $80 on a topsider is nuts.

Pretzel logic in action.

240Joe

PS...And I know, I'm going to blow up my 240D and 300D with this oil change interval. Yet, they keep running...putting 15kmiles per year...year in year out.

Back up what you think with an oil anylisis. Simple to pull a sample and mail it in. As long as your retained insolubles are below the abrasive level there is of course no problem.
If too high you are doing automotive machine shop work in your engine. A direct injection diesel makes far less soot and extensions are less risky.
These indirect diesel engines gather soot like crazy in the oil. One of those great things where an oil test is going to clear your thinking one way or another really fast in my opinion. . Pull an oil sample fairly with say 15k on it or more. As I mentioned earlier back up what you think with real information. You might even be right.

I am right...No need for wasteful oil analysis.

I don't need to hit myself in the crotch area with a 8 pound sledge to know that it's going to hurt. The way to greatest is standing on the shoulders of those great ones that came before you.

240Joe

Famous last words. Let me know when your cars become parts cars from your "extended intervals", I may be in need of some interior trim bits.

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I know, I know....I've been hearing that for years. Dogma is hard to kill. Oil technology is vastly superior to when the 3kmile oil change interval myth ruled the earth. Pollution and radicalized mid-eastern governments are the result...blood of your friends and neighbor's sons and daughters all so you can feel good about taking care of your engine. Not only is the 3kmiles change interval bad for you, it's bad for all of us.

And I'm still waiting for someone to point to a verified case where an extended oil drain interval has definitively caused an engine failure.

No one has provided me with one. And so it goes...

240Joe

I forgot to post this about the recreational oil changer. Many of these folks troll this forum.....

Recreational Oil changing

The term "recreational oil changer" was coined to define people (you 3000 miles changers) that change their oil far more than necessary because they actually enjoy doing it. It's easy to understand the psychology behind the recreational oil changing. It's the visceral feel of the tools, the victory when that old oil filter breaks free, the hot dirty oil pouring out, the joy of oiling of the gasket on the new filter, that new copper or fiber gasket on the drain plug, the clean clear oil going in, and the sense of accomplishment when you start the car, the oil light comes on for a moment, then goes out. For $8-10 in oil and parts, it's pretty cheap entertainment, but if people would be content to do it only when it provides some benefit to the vehicle, it would be better.

240Joe

Look, what I'm saying is extending your oil change intervals to such long distances without checking to make the soot content is within certain tolerances is unwise. You claim an oil analysis is a waste of money, but do you know for a FACT that YOUR soot content in YOUR engine is at OR below 2% at 15K mi? Just because some other guy's OM617 can do it doesn't mean mine can w/o an analysis to be sure. Not all OM617s have aged the same way. I'm running M1 5W-40, I'm going to see how far I can safely go on this oil before soot becomes a limiting factor. I wanna know will MY engine be able to reach xxxxx mi before soot gets too high. It depends on your vehicle's environment, the quality of fuel, how it was driven, etc... And nobody drives their MB diesels all the same exact way, all in the same part of the country, we don't all have the exact fuel quality, that's why long intervals work for some, and don't work for others.

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I heard what you said before....no need to repeat yourself.

You are operating out of ignorance. 2% is not the applicable soot level any longer. Mercedes spec'ed that years ago not because that was the limit for their engines, but because it was the limit for oil back then. That has changed.

Get the oil spec and read it. It will give you a different number. Then, do a google search on oil analysis for our diesels and review the data.

Then, and only then, will the light turn on.

240Joe

Can you post MB's new oil specs then?

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I'll give you a hint. One major oil manufacturer is claiming its synthetic diesel oil can handle 10% soot. These oils are needed for the new low emissions EGR diesel engines. 2% is extinct, and that changes everything for our diesels.

240Joe

240Joe, I did some reading up on the issue of the 2% rule, turns out it's not the oil company's spec for oil as you stated, but rather MB's spec.
You can see for yourself here
http://mbca.cartama.net/showpost.php?p=98754&postcount=60

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

Yes, I am very knowledgeable of that quote and that person. It was taken a bit out of context, and your interpretation is 100% incorrect.

It only matters that the oil can meet spec carrying the soot load. It used to be it could only do that at 2%. Now it is 5 to 10%. If the oil meets the spec, the engine doesn't care.

soot is 0.03 micron in size. That's some little stuff.

As long as it doesn't clump, all is good. Common sense.....it's not common any more.

240Joe

Marshall Booth's post is easy to understand, and is straight to the point, how can it be misinterpreted?
I'll quote it for everyone to see:
Now, to show YOU there was no misinterpretation, lets go over some selections from both you and Marshall Booth in both quotes.

Here's Marshall Booth's explanation.

Pretty clear isn't it? Lets go on a little bit further.

To reiterate it, what Marshall Booth is saying is even if the oil can handle 5-10% soot content and be within spec, the engine itself cannot handle over 2% without the threat of damage. What Mercedes-Benz specifies and what the oil companies specify are two different things, and don't have anything to do with each other. How much clearer and more concise can it get?

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

This is a statement I've come across numerous times in this thread: "while doing the oil change, one has the opportunity to look here and there to see if there are items in need of attention..."
What is specifically that you check out while you are under the car, everybody?

Rino

__________________
1979 240D, W123, 105K miles, stick, white w/ tan interior.