Cold weather and my '83TD -- Newbie question - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

SwampYankee · #16 02-16-2007, 01:55 PM

10 min. is a long time to be cranking and an awful lot to ask of your battery and starter with it being that cold. If this is your only transportation I'd hold off until you get it fixed. I know for a fact that I have at least 3 plugs out and if it's under 35* I've got to crank for a good minute to get mine started. But it's too cold for me to play around with it right now so she gets to sleep in. Fortunately I've got something else to drive in the meantime.

I wonder if the PO replaced the GPs because it was hard to start when the GP controller might be the culprit?

kerry · #17 02-16-2007, 02:01 PM

How many miles on this puppy?

Hatterasguy · #18 02-16-2007, 02:02 PM

At 0 if its in good shape you don't need a block heater, but everything most be 100%.

If the battery is older repalce it. After 4 years they are scrap with these cars.
How fast does the starter spin? How are the grounds?
When were the valves last adjusted?
Check the timing, adjust if off.
Check the compression as a last resort.
You need 5w40 synthetic oil for maximum cranking speed at those temps.
Replace the fuel filters.
Replace the glow plugs, with Bosch ones.

Thats about it, fix everything on this list and if the compression is good it will start at 0 without much trouble.

mike0000 · #19 02-16-2007, 02:13 PM

Just a tip, I cycle my glow plugs three times before trying to start mine in these really cold temps.

Mike

rrgrassi · #20 02-16-2007, 02:36 PM

When you check the GP's pull one to see what brand it is. Bosch is best IMHO, followed by BERU. If it is Autolite or Champion, change them because they are known to fail with in a year.

Also, if the PO did not ream the GP hole, carbon will prevent proper heating from the GP's

jallgire · #21 02-16-2007, 05:30 PM

Funny...I just wrote a post asking the questions that this previous post answers! Thanks.

Suggestions on good places to order quality glow plugs online? Or do any of the major auto parts stores stock them?

Brian Carlton · #22 02-16-2007, 08:52 PM

If the engine won't start with a functioning block heater, the very first thing to check are the glow plugs. It doesn't matter if they were changed last week. You must confirm that all the plugs are operating and that they are all getting 12V.

Once this has been done, and the problem remains, it's time to check the valve lash. Any intake valves that are tight at 70F. will probably be holding the valve slightly open at 0F. If so, the engine will definitely have difficulty starting.

In very cold temperatures, the intake valves should be set on the high side of the spec...........005 or .006" (at 70F.) is preferred to prevent any hanging of the valve. If you check them at 0F., I'll bet that all of them are close to 0 lash.......or less.

jallgire · #23 02-16-2007, 09:01 PM

Battery was replaced in summer of 2006. We've put it on a slow charger for the night and will see what happens in the morning.

Hopefully it can make it to my mechanic so that we can take care of the glow plugs.

This is my only vehicle, but not something that I have to drive everyday (I just got back to the US after being abroad for nearly 4 years and am now job-hunting). In this situation it's OK b/c I can be without it for a few days (or longer) while we troubleshoot things.

Oh...one more important question. Is it normal/OK for a significant amount of blackness to come through the exhaust pipe when it first starts up? I didn't really notice it before we got snow, but now I can see that for about the first 5 minutes it's running, the snow gets really dirty.

-- About 350,000 miles on this old girl. Only about 2,000 of those are from me, so I'm hoping she doesn't turn into a money pit!

PO says valves/compression shouldn't be an issue b/c he checked things just before selling it to me in November.

Hatterasguy · #24 02-17-2007, 12:40 AM

350k miles hmm, before you go to nuts check the timing and compression. If the original timing chain is in there I bet you are out quite a bit. At that mileage the compression may be so so.

jallgire · #25 02-17-2007, 05:31 PM

Well, I'm a little bit encouraged. Had the car on the battery charger all night, plus block charger plugged in.

This afternoon, it got up to about 34 degrees (a real heat wave for Michigan) so I was optimistic. I cycled through the glow plugs 3 times and then turned the ignition for about 20 seconds. Stopped, then repeated the process and she fired up.

Still a lot of dark smoke coming out of the exhaust for the first few minutes -- any idea about that?

Tomorrow I'll be with my mechanic to check out the Glow Plugs and battery, plus other items people mentioned if he has time.

Suggestions on places to purchase quality Glow Plugs at a good price?

captainmonk · #26 02-17-2007, 05:52 PM

dont worry about the exhaust smoke at the moment you have a lot of unburnt fuel going thru there with all the aborted starting attempts

jallgire · #27 02-18-2007, 02:39 PM

It looks like we're actually going to be above freezing most afternoons this week! *laugh*

Block heater was plugged in all night and then I tried starting my car this afternoon. Pretty much the same process as yesterday and it started up. I'm planning to be with a mechanic on Wednesday do check the glow plugs, but at least the battery isn't completely dead!

It looks like I'm going on a 2-week service project to Mississippi in mid-March, so if we can get the car starting easily by that point, maybe I'll drive! I guess I better get stocked up on vegetable oil, too! *grin*

Bama1 · #28 02-18-2007, 05:36 PM

VEGGIE OIL? I hope you are joking... the "D" stands for Diesel.

I am not a fan of discussing grease pushers on the Diesel forum but that's just a soapbox opinion from a Diesel snob.

Anyway, Newbie fans of MB are always welcome here...makes me rethink some of the fun and challenges these fine cars present us with over time.

Your recent experience sounds like mostly an electrical problem overall. I would suggest that you check or replace your battery cables in case they have not been replaced in the last 10 years. Over time, the interior cable wiring can and will oxidize or corrode and will not transfer the necessary power to the starter! (even though the starter spins). Since Ma Benz uses such good OEM stuff we tend to forget that those things will wear out and need to be be checked periodically to rule out contributing root cause for problems.
In this case, I suspect there are several small individual conditions at normal tolerances that when combined under extreme conditions result in the cranking failure. For example low battery, high resistance in cable or connections, timing chain stretch, poor fuel delivery, valves out of adjustment, corrupted fuel (H20, Gel, debris, grease), weak glo-plugs, reduced compression...added together at Zero degrees means no dice and points to several things to check out and try to make right.
First is electrical.
Battery - Fully Charged. Posts and connections clean, tight?
Cables sound? Starter connections clean and tight? Glow plugs measured?
Use the block hearter cause you have it! (I plug in every nite when I get home from work 'til consistent overnite temps over 35)
Second is Fuel.
Good clean Diesel (not waste vegetable oil)? Filters recent? Visible fuel in the inline filter?

Enough from me for now, let us know what develops as you look into this more.

Good luck, keep warm, and glad you chimed in!