HELP!!! Something has finally broken down! - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Surf-n-Turf · #46 03-01-2007, 12:40 PM

Here, try this. The green line is the brake hose that goes to the caliper. The magenta line is the sway bar. the part your pointing at is what looks like a sway bar link. Although the sway bar link and sway bar do not look original. How long have you had the car?

HELP!!! Something has finally broken down!-ghgfft.jpg

rino · #47 03-01-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

Looks like some kind of homemade version of a sway bar link. In this picture, does the rod (sway bar) I put an arrow on connect to the rod your talking about?
Attachment 41737

Actually I went downstairs and checked... again. Yes, you are correct... the rod you indicated with an arrow DOES connect to the linkage I'm talking about...
But can it really be the sway bar link? I mean, I'm looking right now at the PP catalog, the rear suspension page for my car, and it shows as a sway bar link exactly the same shape as the picture that was posted earlier in this thread (showing a sway bar link). This thing doesn't look like a "homemade version".
Are you positively sure about what you are saying?

Rino

P.S. I am deleting my previous answer to your inquiry, since it was wrong and might mislead others...

rino · #48 03-01-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spark3542

It looks like your photo shows a sway bar linkage.

The sway bar is not part of the brakes, it is a bar that connects the suspension on one side to the suspension on the other side. It is designed to "persuade" the other suspension to collapse some if one side is collapsed some, and vice versa. When you are taking a corner, the outside suspension wants to compress, and the inner suspension wants to extend, and the sway tries to keep them somewhat even, resulting in less sway when you corner. If one side is disconnected, then you just have much poorer performance when you corner, but no other functional impact. It has nothing to do with your brakes, control arms, ball joints etc.

If I had to guess, I would say the other piece that that sway bar linkage connected to (on the back of the hub) came loose and fell inside to the area where the parking brake shoes are, and that is causing the noise and the drag.

That's my vote.

If that's the case, it is reassuring in a sense, but how in he** am I going to replace that in my car when all auto-part catalogs show a totally different part as a sway bar link? In your opinion, if it is really a sway bar link as you say, could its being damaged have accounted for the rumbling/clinking noise I was experiencing when making turns?

I'll check again tonight if some part of it fell where you said... It would be one of the easiest fixes imaginable...

Rino

rino · #49 03-01-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

Here, try this. The green line is the brake hose that goes to the caliper. The magenta line is the sway bar. the part your pointing at is what looks like a sway bar link. Although the sway bar link and sway bar do not look original. How long have you had the car?
Attachment 41738

I've had it for exactly two years... Gave me no problems until now. But why would someone come up with something homemade like that (a distortion of a sway bar and its link) when, in fact, those are not at all hard or expensive to replace?

Are you positively sure that must be the sway bar link? I'll put the car up again tonight and see if I can find a real sway bar and its link somewhere there...

If not, then what we have been looking at is an abortion of a sway bar setup...

Thanks,
Rino

rino · #50 03-01-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

If BOTH rear wheels are locked, or nearly locked, the odds of BOTH calipers freezing up at the same time are nil. What you may very well have is a bad brake hose or other hydraulic problem that is trapping the pressure into the calipers.

BEFORE removing the calipers, go to the master cylinder and crack open the line that goes to the rear brakes. Wear glasses when you do this and be prepared to clean up a mess because brake fluid will attack paint.

If there is lots of trapped pressure there while there is no pedal pressure, then something is trapping the pressure. A flaky brake hose can do this, but that will be only on one side.

Have the brakes worn down metal to metal on the rear?

Hope this helps,

Hi Larry, I don't know how I could possibly have missed your post, but I did...
Both rear wheels do not spin freely, seems like brake dragging of some sort to me, but they are not locked, nor nearly locked... Although not to the extent that it has occurred two days ago, this might have been going in a milder form for quite some time now... This is the first time in two years that I have looked into it... I know, very negligent on my part, but this has changed for good now, believe me.
Pedal pressure was fine when I drove the car last two days ago...
No, the brakes have not worn down metal to metal, there's a 2 or 3mm left in the rear pads before the metal backing.

Does it make sense at this point to bleed the system (the car needs it anyway... that's another thing that was never done during my ownership of the vehicle) and change the rear break pads, and then start from there?

Thanks,
Rino

biobenz240d · #51 03-01-2007, 01:45 PM

I just looked up the rear axle shaft flange R&R on the mercedes cd manual. main function group 35 sub function group 130 (35-130) It shows a picture of the backing plate , holes for caliper and the sway bar link attached. Apparently a "79 240D has a different link than what is on the newer models(plastic). The picture that Rino posted is the end of the link. Looks like the connection part is pulled out of the link (rubber grommet mounted ,possibly). As far as the noise ,either the link or sway bar wedged to cause rubbing or there is problems with the parking brake shoes.

just my 2 cents

biobenz240d · #52 03-01-2007, 01:52 PM

The parking brakes are a separate set of brake shoes inside the rear drum/disc, I'll bet you'll find the drag and noise coming from the shoes dragging metal to metal. You'll need to remove the rear disc.

rino · #53 03-01-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

It could be something as simple as running over a piece of wire and getting it wrapped around the driveshaft or one of the axles.

Keep us posted,

I am thinking that it might be part of the linkage (sway bar links, homemade?) that got destroyed and possibly fell into the parking brake shoes, as someone has suggested here. The strong noise (started two days ago) comes exactly from turning the wheel on the side of the broken linkage part. I'll put the car up again tonight and take the wheels off and see what comes up...

Rino

Surf-n-Turf · #54 03-01-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biobenz240d

I just looked up the rear axle shaft flange R&R on the mercedes cd manual. main function group 35 sub function group 130 (35-130) It shows a picture of the backing plate , holes for caliper and the sway bar link attached. Apparently a "79 240D has a different link than what is on the newer models(plastic). The picture that Rino posted is the end of the link. Looks like the connection part is pulled out of the link (rubber grommet mounted ,possibly). As far as the noise ,either the link or sway bar wedged to cause rubbing or there is problems with the parking brake shoes.

just my 2 cents

Way to go Biobenz. I know it didn't look like anything on all 6 W123's I have had. My oldest is the...hey wait...I have a '79 240D!! Why the heck didn't I look at that one. Tonight I'll check and post pics and or results Rino. Dang I'm a putz sometimes.

spark3542 · #55 03-01-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rino

If that's the case, it is reassuring in a sense, but how in he** am I going to replace that in my car when all auto-part catalogs show a totally different part as a sway bar link? In your opinion, if it is really a sway bar link as you say, could its being damaged have accounted for the rumbling/clinking noise I was experiencing when making turns?

I'll check again tonight if some part of it fell where you said... It would be one of the easiest fixes imaginable...

Rino

So, on the left side, the sway bar is still connected to the backing plate on the hub. I bet the bushing at the backing plate on the right side is missing. The bushing is in the street about a 1/2 mile from your house, and the nut that previously held it is now captured inside the cavity that houses the parking brake shoes, and is rattling around in there.

rino · #56 03-01-2007, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

frozen calipers are very common. pull one off and try to compress the piston back in. if it doesnt compress, remove the brake line and try to compress again. sometimes the brake hoses will collapse internally so if it compresses after removing the hose then your hose is bad.

Is this business of removing the calipers, dealing with pushing the pistons back, something within my reach, or am I about to open the proverbial can or worms and I 'd be better off taking the car to a mechanic... honestly? I am in a situation that the only work I can do on the car is during night hours, and then have to put the car together again before 6-7 am... Is this something achievable within that time frame by someone as inexperienced as I am?
Should I go ahead and order the rear pads? change those and do the bleeding.
And about the sway bar links... how do I do that? I certainly can't order the commercial ones that aren't going to match to the custom items that were installed in my car... right?

Rino

rino · #57 03-01-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biobenz240d

I just looked up the rear axle shaft flange R&R on the mercedes cd manual. main function group 35 sub function group 130 (35-130) It shows a picture of the backing plate , holes for caliper and the sway bar link attached. Apparently a "79 240D has a different link than what is on the newer models(plastic). The picture that Rino posted is the end of the link. Looks like the connection part is pulled out of the link (rubber grommet mounted ,possibly). As far as the noise ,either the link or sway bar wedged to cause rubbing or there is problems with the parking brake shoes.

just my 2 cents

Yes, you are correct, the connection part was pulled out of the link (I know that by comparing the torn-apart link with the one still connected at both ends). But if the "79 240D came with the link I have, why all the catalogs list the other type specifically for my car model? You think there's any chance I can find the type of link I have, so I can replace it?

Rino

spark3542 · #58 03-01-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rino

Is this business of removing the calipers, dealing with pushing the pistons back, something within my reach, or am I about to open the proverbial can or worms and I 'd be better off taking the car to a mechanic... honestly? I am in a situation that the only work I can do on the car is during night hours, and then have to put the car together again before 6-7 am... Is this something achievable within that time frame by someone as inexperienced as I am?
Should I go ahead and order the rear pads? change those and do the bleeding.
And about the sway bar links... how do I do that? I certainly can't order the commercial ones that aren't going to match to the custom items that were installed in my car... right?

Rino

Brake work is within your reach. Since the rear brakes use two pistons, take a look at the pad thicknesses of inside pad vs outside pad. If they are drastically different, then you probably have a seized piston, and you should go ahead and replace the caliper.

The sway bar link is not rocket surgery either. It's pretty basic, it just bolts to sway bar nad backing plate, and must pivot to allow suspension movement.

rino · #59 03-01-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biobenz240d

The parking brakes are a separate set of brake shoes inside the rear drum/disc, I'll bet you'll find the drag and noise coming from the shoes dragging metal to metal. You'll need to remove the rear disc.

Just one question... if that were the case (and I am going to look into it - just I have no idea how difficult the whole business will be... I hope I won't be overextending myself and end up worse than I started), would the parking brake still perform strongly... It has worked fine all along.
Before opening up the brakes to that extent, do you advise I should get rear brake pads, parking brake shoes, and what else. I'd much appreciate sound advice here, since I have no idea how to go about it smartly. Can someone suggest what specific brands are advisable for my car? Besides, what range number of chassis does my car belong to? How do I find that out? I need that in order to properly order the brake pads that go with my car....
Your help is greatly appreciated.

Rino

rino · #60 03-01-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

Way to go Biobenz. I know it didn't look like anything on all 6 W123's I have had. My oldest is the...hey wait...I have a '79 240D!! Why the heck didn't I look at that one. Tonight I'll check and post pics and or results Rino. Dang I'm a putz sometimes.

Thanks!
One of the challenges here is to find a replacement for those blown sway bar links...

Rino