617 Head Corrosion - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

GRIESL · #1 03-03-2007, 10:32 PM

Ok, I love my car, so I treated her to the very best--reman head from Metric. Sent my head in for core credit and here's what I received in return. Caps lock is their doing, not mine--sorry....

HEAD CORE NOT REPAIRABLE:: HAS SUFFERED EXTREME LONGTERM EXPOSURE TO WATER
CONTAMINATION. COMBUSTION CHAMBERS ARE CORRODED OUR IN NEARLY EVERY CYLINDER
(CAUSE FOR CONCERN REGARDING YOUR CYLINDERS/PISTONS WHICH ARE ALSO EXPOSED
TO THIS CORROSIVE ACTION??)

First, I'm bummed that I'm not getting my $400 core charge back - especially after paying $80 to have it shipped there, but second, is this a large cause for concern? I've owned the car for about 10 months and put 6k on it before doing the head, so I assume whatever was done to cause this was done by previous owners? The block, pistons, cylinder walls all "looked" ok, but honestly I wouldn't have known what to look for. Car runs real well and a whole lot better with new head. And if I'm ok now, should I go out and get a water separator fuel filter? Confused.... Any thoughts?

PS: Heard of another dude not getting core charge back from Metric. Any reason to be suspicious?

toomany MBZ · #2 03-04-2007, 06:09 PM

Can only add about water seperator. Not a bad idea, however, if you purchase fuel from a station with high deisel turnover, should not need. PO may gone the cheap route, causing problems you described. A local "head" shop [if available] might be the way to go.

GRIESL · #3 03-04-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toomany MBZ

Can only add about water seperator. Not a bad idea, however, if you purchase fuel from a station with high deisel turnover, should not need. PO may gone the cheap route, causing problems you described. A local "head" shop [if available] might be the way to go.

Does diesel "condensate" in the tank? Or more importantly, does biodiesel collect condensation, especially if getting cold at night and really warm while running?

I went with Metric because I had heard of the locals not being able to do the job right. And while I enjoy my hobby/addiction of wrenching cars, I really didn't want to do this job twice.

Does anyone know of issues I should look for in the block that could be related to the corrosion?

kerry · #4 03-04-2007, 09:16 PM

No idea how the head would get corrosion issues. If it were me, I'd go the local pick and pull, get a head for $50 and send it to Metric to get my core charge back.

t walgamuth · #5 03-04-2007, 09:25 PM

good idea kerry.

it is hard to imagine how....but it is also very hard to imagine metric faking it.

tom w

Mustang_man298 · #6 03-04-2007, 10:51 PM

Perhaps what they are calling corrosion was actually the result of an improper fuel delivery or timing from the injectors causing combustion etching?

jshadows · #7 03-05-2007, 08:36 AM

maybe it's worth going to a local machine shop and getting them to verify. While they may not be Metric Motors they should be able to tell if the head is within spec for a rebuild for little or no charge.

Did Metric disclaim this before you bought the reman head? Not cool if they didn't.

Ken300D · #8 03-05-2007, 08:49 AM

This brings up a good point about taking several pictures of something expensive that you plan to turn in as a core. Makes good evidence to threaten court action.

Did you see the head yourself before sending it back? Did it not look OK?

The temptation to steal $400 from every five or six customers is likely a factor. I've seen EBay sellers who consistently messed-over every 20th customer or so. Mercedes991 for example.

Ken300D

pwogaman · #9 03-05-2007, 10:36 AM

Have them send you some pictures. If they are essentially charging you $400 make them justify it.

GRIESL · #10 03-05-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshadows

maybe it's worth going to a local machine shop and getting them to verify. While they may not be Metric Motors they should be able to tell if the head is within spec for a rebuild for little or no charge.

Did Metric disclaim this before you bought the reman head? Not cool if they didn't.

They do disclaim it in all their literature. I did the head r&r myself so I was able to look at it. But it was all gummed up with carbon, and I didn't take much time to clean it before I sent it back. The areas around the valves were pretty ugly and every valve stem was covered with carbon. I wouldn't mind going to the pick and pull and getting a head, but since I'm on the East Coast, everytime I send 'em one it cost me $80. It is hard for to imagine that Metric would fake it as well. They come so highly recommended and they were wonderful to work with. Maybe I'm just lamenting out loud.

toomany MBZ · #11 03-05-2007, 05:51 PM

[quote=GRIESL;1439967]Does diesel "condensate" in the tank? Or more importantly, does biodiesel collect condensation, especially if getting cold at night and really warm while running?

Condensation will occur on the walls of the fuel tank, where air is present. Refueling will mix with condensation. The better to drive your diesel, my dear. That's from Little Red Riding Hood, if the wolf drove a 300D, that is.

Shorebilly · #12 03-06-2007, 06:33 AM

[quote=toomany MBZ;1441161]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRIESL

Does diesel "condensate" in the tank? Or more importantly, does biodiesel collect condensation, especially if getting cold at night and really warm while running?

Condensation will occur on the walls of the fuel tank, where air is present. Refueling will mix with condensation. The better to drive your diesel, my dear. That's from Little Red Riding Hood, if the wolf drove a 300D, that is.

The main reason that I keep all of my vehicles fuel tanks topped up.....

SB

vstech · #13 03-06-2007, 07:54 AM

yup, my air force senior maintenance officer father always taught me that.
especially in colder climates. condensation is real, and it causes more problems than just water in the fuel, it rusts out the fuel lines/tanks, it causes the fuel to form a gel/sludge that will plug up filters, and some claim it attributes to fungus in the tank.
John

barry123400 · #14 03-06-2007, 08:26 AM

The problem I have with the four hundred core charge is the dollar amount. I would think they would have access to good cores for a lot less. It is in their line of business afterall. You also at this stage have to give them the benefit of the doubt about the heads condition.
Perhaps they would be willing to source a local core out where they are and refund at least the difference? Probably not. Again I really think none of us on site have to pay four hundred for a well used head off an old 617 engine.
As a safety precaution it might be worthwhile to ask them to recondition the head you send in from now on with site members. That way you do not have to pay a core charge and if the head is unusable you just go buy a cheap one locally and take it to any good automotive machine shop to check it out.
Buy the parts you require at as good a price as you can and have them finish it. It is rumoured metric will sell you all the new valves if required and guides etc at pretty reasonable prices. I personally have never thought there was anything particularily exotic with doing a 617 head.
If you feel uncomforatable with selecting an automotive machine shop ask any mercedes shop where they send their heads locally for valve jobs. If they are happy with the place you should be too.
Sorry to hear about this happening to you. It just might save some members money in the future. If you really know how to manipulate things you even might get a shop to get your head run throught under their name and at some kind of jobber price. All it takes sometimes is a little intelligent discussion with people. Of course it does not work all the time. Yet often enough to be worth trying. Buying a shop crew a bucket of chicken to show your appreciation for the help has worked wonders at times.

Ken300D · #15 03-06-2007, 01:47 PM

I'm not sure how you can corrode or erode something that has a layer of carbon on it. First you'd have to eat away the carbon.

Ken300D