They already did all the R&D for the 617a in the late 70's. All it would have taken to adapt the technology to the 616 is to cut 1 cylinder off the design.

I just don't think MB is all that fond of turbo's. The 190D was available in a few forms for 6 years (84-89) and they only offered 1 model with a turbo for 1 year. The E300 was available for 5 years (95-99) and they only offered a turbo in the final two years while the European S300 was getting turbo 606's since the early 90s. Only about 10% of 79-89 diesels outside of the USA were turbocharged.

So what's the deal? Is there a German anti-turbo gene?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

We all know Chrysler was turbo-happy in the late 80's and throughout the 90's. Their turbo 2.2/2.5's were available in nearly every vehicle they sold. Maybe they were able to show MB the light.

I thought that European markets had turbocharged 190Ds after the US stopped receiving them.

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

MB puts OM616 turbo on the Gurkha vehicle I drive here, its essentially nothing but 617 turbo minus one cylinder.

__________________
99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

Yep, I have the 616 turbo, highways have improved lately and I do get chance to drive at 120kmph lately. Whats amazing is that the OM616 turbo does so well off road too, quiet tractable and luggable even for a turbo.

__________________
99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

Does anyone have the production figures on that run?

I think the sense of the typical models can be seen if the 616, 617, and 617 turbo are all seen as basically the same engine, just with modifications and upgrades.

__________________
1982 300CD Petrol/Black Leather

Mercedes only put a turbo on the diesels in the USA. Probably to have them compete more effectively with the Cadillacs they were in opposition to. Cars wit h huge V8's and effortless accelleration at most speeds. Such car's did not exist outside the USA and so there was no need for a turb in other markets. The sprinter is the first commerical van Mercedes has sold in the USA and in NA version probably wouldnt compete against domestic rivals.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

The Europeans got a turbo diesel W123 wagon.

__________________
1979 240D- 316K miles - VGT Turbo, Intercooler, Stick Shift, Many Other Mods - Daily Driver

1982 300SD - 232K miles - Wife's Daily Driver

1986 560SL - Wife's red speed machine

I'm pretty sure there was a turbo Sprinter in Europe before they brought it to the USA.
They also sold turbo cars and GWagons in Europe. There were other European auto and van makers with turbos also.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

There may have not been a market for "high performance" diesels in Europe at that point, but plenty of people were riding around in 230, 280se, 380, 420, 500 and 560 powered cars, and those are quite effortless in their acceleration. The biggest gas MB I've ever ridden in was a W123 280te wagon, on regular gas, poorly maintained, 176,000 on the clock, and it could squash you into your seat on hard acceleration! Not to mention how it effortlessly topped 125mph... It also got about 12mpg.

Europeans seem to be split between those that are ok with 0-100km of 40 seconds, and those that want 0-100km in about 4 seconds. The turbodiesels (of our car's era) are a middle ground to that.

My dad remembers driving a W123 5cyl na stick shift (5 speed) and he said it was incredibly fast. So they still had fun diesels. 240 were for no fun-workhorse stuff, and the 5cyl was for people wanting some more speed/acceleration.

__________________
-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

I was surprised to not see more mention of what I thought would be the obvious reason not to turbo the diesel engines-- fuel economy. A non-turbo motor gets better fuel economy, the turbo motor is more "efficient" because it allows a smaller engine to be more powerful, but that does not mean less gallons of fuel burned... I also agree with the poster who mentioned the need for more raw power to compete with Caddys and the like in the American market... interestingly enough, you can still get only 22mpg with a turbo 617 and be VERY competetive with American luxury cars (read: double) in the mpg department too ... although you would see much higher mpg numbers with a non-turbo engine, albeit increased 0-60 times and unsightly (oh heaven forbid) smoke at elevation and under load.

Ya I was going to say that was wrong. If we got it, trust me it was a option for the euro market as well.

__________________
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

I don't think that's true. The turbo 617's get slightly better mileage than the NA.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I don't care what people are experiencing for mileage in general. These cars are 20 - 30 years old, and most of us are likely not the original owners.

A properly maintained OM617 turbo in a W123 should see mid to high 20s on summer fuel at speeds less than 75 mph.

If you're getting less, then something is not right. It may take you a LONG time to figure it out, but you MUST persevere with your efforts. The EPA rated the turbo diesel wagons (W123s) for 35 mpg when new at a steady cruising speed of 55 mph.