Well, as long as I can only dream about finding a stick-shift 300D for a reasonable price, I might as well wish for one with manual heat/AC and a 5-speed!

Happy Motoring, Mark

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DrDKW

D S and L!

I know i have a 300td naturally aspirated and one of the fastest 240D i have ever seen (believe it or not i clocked it several times with the gps 0-60 in less than 13 seconds).[/QUOTE]

I have a 240d example that seems to outperform the majority by a wide margin as well. It is not quiet at speed but you can notice it is nowhere as noisy as most of them.
The speedometer could be defective as it indicates it can exceed 100 mph as well. It had a new engine installed just prior to my purchase by a dealer. I do not generally talk about that example yet am happy I own it. I have never timed the 0-60 times as never thought to do it.
What really bothers me is it seems to be quite good on fuel as well. Once in awhile I hear of another faster than average example like yours. No known reason this should be on either of our cars. If I ever retime the injection pump I will see where it is set at first. Very smooth idle, very good reasonably cold starting ability as well.
I would not expect people to believe this as even I have my doubts with my car. Speedometer error to start with for me? This car would have to be the one with no sunroof and a color I am not wild about. Plus needing about ten hours per side rust repair on the rear fender lips. Its in the heated garage with the inner and outer insert patch panels taking a holiday on top of the car for the last couple of years. I might get that done this spring. It is on my long list of things to do when I get time.
Just a joy to drive though and one example I will never willingly sell. Yet if the time comes because of my advancing age or circumstances change I will try to post it on our site. Not to get the big bucks but rather just to see a knowing fellow member enjoy it. It is well worth the experience in my opinion. My red 240d with black upolstery and sunroof in comparison is just average at best overall.

Since you have both of the types of cars I was questioning, I will ask some more questions. What is you highway crusing speed with your 240D? Can it cruise 65mph without it sounding like it is going to take off like an airplane? Is the 300D more quiet on the highway? Is the fuel mileage similar between the two? From what I had read doing research, I kind of thought the 240D would get the better mileage somewhere between 27mpg-30mpg, and the 300D would get between 22mpg-25mpg? I am looking at both of these cars. I live 15 miles out in the country from any towns where we go for parts, groceries, ect. I will travel 4 miles on dirt roads before I get to a highway. I think I would be happy with the 240D, but fuel mileage is my highest priority, and if the 300D NA would get the better mileage, I will go that route. Plus, I have a college son attending Kansas State University, and I imagine he might try to steal it, and go back to school with it!(lol) He would have about a 180 mile trip. so the 300D might be more comfortable. Your thoughts?
thanks,
Jim

A noise reduction in the 240 can be accomplished by getting everything back to original condition to some extent. When everything is in good shape 65 is not too noisy. If things like the engine and transmission mounts are not really good it can be quite noisy at 65.
As for the milage again some do better than the 300d natural aspired but probablty most do about the same. The simplixity of the 240d is prefferable over time. The decision of what to buy seems to be taken care of more by the condition of what you find out there.
I have always thought the 240d needs the five speed overdrive to be a happier car on the highway from the drivers perspective. The 300d natural aspired could also stand a rear differential change. These are just my views possible caused by my experiece with newer cars that do not rev as high. You will not hurt the older diesels by running them fairly hard though. A good audio setup in a 240d is not wasted money..
There also seems to be a little handling difference between the two. Possibly caused by the lighter four cylinder engine.

While I don't have extensive experience with a NA 300D, theoretically there's no way it can get as good mileage as a manual 240D, all else being equal. The greater displacement of the engine and drag of the automatic transmission don't do the 300D any favors when it comes to fuel economy. Also isn't the auto transmission only a 3 speed? If so, I can easily see the 4-speed manual 240D being about as peppy as the NA 300D.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

same weight , same number of gears, aprox 65 hp vs 85 hp.

the 300d should be a little faster even considering various rear axle ratios.

neither of them will pull a sick whore off the pot though

bordo

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1984 300d turbo with 200k miles
on used filtered ATF

0-60 in 13 seconds!?

I'm still waiting for mine to GET to sixty and I bought it in Feb!

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1984 300d turbo with 200k miles
on used filtered ATF

A stock 240D doing 0-60 in less than 17 seconds ain't gonna happen without cheating.

What would the time be with a 4200 RPM clutch drop?

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

While being dropped from a cliff?

I'm talking things like downhill runs, counting in your head, non-working speedo, guessing (butt-o-meter), etc.

I have driven both and I prefer a manual 240D hands down. It is more fun to drive, easier to work on and if you're lucky it will have manual windows, manual a/c control as well, making it a more trouble free, easier to maintain car.

My $0.02,

Early candidate for "line of the week".....

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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John

well... i got 13 seconds with the 240D and i have never done anything in particular to it... if the previous owner has, then it is pretty well hidden...
What i do is I start in L, have the car go through the first 2 gears in L then 3rd in S (by that time i am already at 55-60mph). then switch to drive. the manual only gives you a marginal advantage if you try this!

I do the same with the 300 NA, and i can tell you there is a world of difference in pick up (25% more hp!!!). My former landlady had 2 300D NA and there were both consistent (in the case of the sedan that is only a 45lb penalty compared to the 240D). in the case of the 300TD it is a almost 300lb.

Now, i dont really understand the comments that claim that a NA 300D is a more complicated engine that the 240D... It is basiquely the same thing! with the exception of the auto climate the rest is pretty much the same!

Mileage wise my 240D is probably another bad example because it is a gas hog (which may explain why it is fast?). and the 300td seems to be on the lower end of consumption, so so far they both get 26mpg. The 300SD on the other hand is pretty bad all around (like 21mpg!!!).

The moral of the story is that performance and mileage will probably vary widly in cars that have 25-30 years of widly variable maintenance histories!

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Aquilae non capunt muscas! (Eagles don't hunt flies!)


1979 300SD Black/Black MBtex239000mi
1983 300TD euro-NA. White/Olive Cloth-MBtex 201000mi. Fleet car of the USA embassy in Morocco
1983 240D Labrador Blue/Blue MBtex 161000mi

Mark (or anyone else who's had both),
From what you are saying the automatic does not have a significant mileage penalty to the manual? I think I've decided I want a 240 instead of a 190...I can't even sit in a 190 with sunroof without my head hitting the ceiling. I have been looking for a 240 manual but giving it more thought maybe the auto would be better as a city car (my current car is stick and I admit to getting a bit tired of shifting sometimes). I do know about the speed penalty.

As long as there's not a huge mileage penalty. Anyone know what the EPA ratings were for W123 240D manual and automatic models?

OK 240D auto
GOOD 240D manual
BETTER 300D auto
BEST 300D turbo

Also, I love manual transmissions, but I've yet to drive a MB with a GREAT manual trans set up..... The turbo auto is by far the nicest W123 diesel setup.

Jim

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14 E250 BlueTEC black. 45k miles
95 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 66k miles
94 E320 Cabriolet Emerald green 152k miles
85 300TD 4 spd man, euro bumpers and lights, 15" Pentas dark blue 274k miles