Manual Glow Plug "timer" switch
 

How about a simple starter solenoid relay from some other old car and a push button to control it with. Id hook all 5 up to it in paralell, and use a button that you have to hold down with your finger for the glowplugs to be on, so you couldn't leave them on, and burn them out. If it starts stalling after startup, just put your finger back on the button. I think I could count to 6 in cold weather and 3 in warm weather with my own brain...one onthousand two onethousand, etc, and err on the short side so as not to burn out my precious plugs.


What do you think
Mark

It will work real good and last a long time. I had an 81 Isuzu Imark diesel. First thing that failed was the glowplug timer. I hooked up a manual switch. 5 months ago, I bought an 83 Ford Ranger diesel. Glow plug system didn't work. Installed a momentary on-switch, works like a champ. The hardest part is the counting. Sometimes I get confused, is it 1, 3, 4, 2 or 1...?

Switches
 

Did you use a remote relay/solenoid, or just send all the current through you switch?

Mark

I installed that set up on my 78 240D quite a while ago and love it. I used an old Ford truck solenoid, and ran the wire through the GP indicator light. You need the solenoid because the new style GPs use an 80amp fuse so theres too many amps to put through the switch. My push button (5/8 hole) is in the dash above my left knee so I can glow and turn the key at the same time.

I use a manual setup. I got an 80amp continuous-duty relay from NAPA for about $30.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...s/relay_lg.jpg

Yah, that would be the best way too go, When I did mine I didn't realize there was a continuous-duty type, but its been working for several years.

Finally got around to taking a picture of it without the fuel/water separator blocking its view.

Mighty tidy job, mine is secured to the fender just forward of the battery.

Here is mine; been in use on my 82 6 cyl volvo diesel since around 1996. The 2 green wires go to the switch with the (+) from the battery on the large Left terminal (with 1 greeen switch wire attached) and the wire to the Glow Plugs comming out of the Right terminal.
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...Picture087.jpg

Yah, I love the "manual" system, mine is routed through the GP light in the cabin, as if you can't hear the solenoid a block away:D

Same here. Its got a nice hearty clunk to it. :D

I just did a manual relay too. Very similar to what you all are listing here.
$25 in parts, connected easily to existing harness.
This way I can re-install a replacement when I find one.
What is not shown is I ran a low-amp wire into cabin connected
to a press-and-hold switch to activate relay. Took 10 minutes.

The relay is grounded to the fuel filter mounting bolt.
Hot wire runs from battery , to cabin, to switch, to relay.
The blue wire going to original relay in pic is now triggered by switch in cabin.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/269192-my-relay-does-not-relay-mystery-solved.html

That's exactly what the early 260D and 170D used

I'm planning on implementing a manual glow plug system on my 617 conversion. I've got a Ford solenoid and I ordered a really nice momentary switch with an orange glow LED in it to turn the glow plugs on.

The switch is rated at 3 amps at 250v which seems like it might be OK up to maybe 6 amps at 12v extrapolating from what I see on other switch ratings.

The thing I can't seem to find anywhere is the current draw on the solenoid itself (not the glow plug or starter side, depending on the application) I've seen speculation everywhere from a few milli-amps to 30 amps.

I can run my switch through a standard old 30amp Bosch relay to power the solenoid but why introduce another point of failure if not needed?

I could measure the amps but all my little meters only go up to 200 miliamps.

Can anyone confirm what the current draw is on a Ford or similar solenoid?

can some one please label the wires in this pic so i can wire up my own? or give me a run down of how on my 83 240d?
and actually the relay i have has 4 post, 2 small ones in the middle.

Got an Echlin or NAPA part number?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050I94XG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

got mine here for, 4 post.

All of the Ones I have seen that have 4 Terminasl and 2 small Terminals one small Terminal is labled S and the other small Terminal is labled I. I used the S Termial to connect one end of the Switch Wire to a + source to the Switch and from the Switch to the S Terminal and the Solenoid Frame/Bracket needs to be grounded to the Chassis.

The 2 big terminals have no specific side to start with. Pic one and connect a Cable from the Batter to it. If you want connect a Wire to the other Size with an 80 amp Fuse and from there the Wire go on to the Glow Plugs.

Ahhh thank you sir, i will cherish this forever... just waiting on my fuse to come from amazon and ill put this to action. thanks

With this circuit the solenoid is unprotected and becomes a potential fire hazard in the event of a short in the wiring or solenoid. But if you go to these lengths why not fuse the glow plugs individually this would be useful in testing the glow plugs individually for shorts or ohms. Not only would it be a safer design but useful in diagnosing glow issues down the road.

I am not sure which part of the Solenoid you mean but a Person is free to add as many Fuses or Circuit Breakers as they feel the need for.

I have no Fuse on the Manual setup I have on My Volvo since about 1992 with zero issues.

On the Mercedes Glow Plug Relay you will see a Flat Copper Wire. That Wire has a direct Connection to the Batter and as far as I know there is no Fuse in that circuit.

Notice that you have no Fuse from the Battery Cable to the Starter Motor and none between the Alternator and the + Wires on the Starter.

A Friend of mine where I used to work dropped a big Screwdriver down to the Starter and Started the Starter Cranking but not engaged. The event did not stop till the Screwdriver melted and the Starter was toast.

There is a fuse... in the relay. Nothing before it...

you need a fuse between the battery and the switch.

My point exactly. As a requirement to meet electrical code all powered devices require fusing. The solenoid is not fused in the circuit diagram.

Is the starter a "powered device"?

What size fuses would be appropriate on the various wires which should have them ?

Is there an advantage to using ' fusible links' for anything ?

Are fusible links a secondary safety fuse... given they are ' slower ' acting than most fuses ? Are they used any place except RIGHT at the Battery connection ?

Here is my manual glow controller. It is a bad Mercedes unit that's been modified so the cluster glow light comes on whenever the glow plugs are on (i.e. when you push the manual button). There is just one wire that goes into the controller (the small white wire), no wires to the car's harness. Connect the wire to one side of a momentary switch, the other side of switch to switched +12V (need ign. key on to activate glow plugs), or to hot at all times +12 V (battery or headlight switch- no ign. key necessary to glow).

There's no modification to the stock wiring. If you decide you do not want a manual system anymore or when you want to sell the car for example, just buy a new glow controller and swap it out- plug and play.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...910_130710.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...910_130828.jpg

Compared to the two manual systems below, which would you rather have?

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f...Picture087.jpg

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...lay-fuses1.jpg

A little confused on what you did, but doesnt sound bad. I dont need to worry about selling or going back though. thanks for all the help gents.

Ill be putting a v8 in later

Good point yes a starter is a powered device but due to the large current draws either a fusible link is used or the wire is sized to fail should the design current be exceeded. In either scenarios one would assume the starter is not protected.

I don't know about that as Battery Cables are usually listed as a minimum gauge that you can use for a specific application; I have never read you were restricted to only one gauged for any short circuit protection.

With other Wires coming off of the Bettery of the Battery Terminal Clamp or the large + Cable at the Starter they frequently have Fusable Links that require a specific size of Wire.

The "I" terminal as you named it needed to be grounded.

I am by no means an expert on battery starter cable sizing but I did contact a friend who knows much more than me and I'll attempt to describe our discussion. You are correct using charts and cable vendor information but this does not address safety in the event of unforeseen circumstances like a crash.

There are at least three design points to be considered when spec'ing out batery starter cable sizes.

(1) The first is the maximum current rating. A cable can be de-rated when in hotter environments, like engine compartments.

(2) The second design point is voltage drop. Cable size current draws and length of wire all play a roll.

(3) The third is failure mode scenarios such as vibration or an accident.

Between the first and second items, voltage drop is the overriding item with 12 volt systems. This is because 12 volt systems use more current than 110 volt system. Higher currents mean higher voltage drops (Ohm’s Law). There are tables available on the internet which show how much voltage drop a given circuit will have given the wire gauge, the current load, and the length of the wire.

How much voltage drop the system tolerate starters will spin fin at 10 or 11 volts provided adequate current is available.

Now, on to point (3). We still have to deal with the possibility of short circuits. Usually, the high current of a short will quickly fry the contact point of the short and open the circuit. This means that the wire will not have time to heat up, but one never knows what can happen.

For an unrelenting hard short, the energy will be expended inside the battery, in the wire, and in the item causing the short. Fuses can help this situation but there are only so many things you can do and you can’t protect everything. There is a lot of energy in a battery and there is always some situation where it can be unloaded in the wrong direction.

A #4 wire will handle about 1000 amps or so for a long enough time to drain a battery. It won’t be pretty. The wire will get very hot. As it heats, its resistance increases, which means the current will drop. If you use too big a wire, then all the energy gets expended inside the battery – probably not a good idea for a device containing acid. You probably would prefer to have the wire melt (*which is basically what a fuse does).

I'm wondering why no one here has tried a solid state version.

Maybe too high tech, maybe cost once you add the required heat sink, maybe overall size due to the heat sink requirements or maybe availability. It would need to handle around 80 amps. It would be good for a million plus starts but most are only rated to work down to -20 degrees C. Just when I need it most! I suppose you could add a heater to preheat the solid state relay before you glow. So I'll throw in complexity.

I put an ad in the for sale section. Maybe the pic and video will explain it better?

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/359811-sale-manual-mercedes-glow-plug-controller-w123-300d-240d.html#post3385882