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  #16  
Old 04-04-2007, 10:06 AM
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Its 240Joe's car!


I'd clean as much as possible, then do a bunch of short oil changes. Go to Walmart get a bunch of their diesel 15w40 and do like 4-5 1k mile changes, then yank the valve cover and see if its clean.

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  #17  
Old 04-04-2007, 10:36 AM
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Heck, this is one of the times that I would resort to my grandfather's way of cleaning out an engine. (He was a real mechanic in his day.) He told me they would drain the oil, put in kerosene, and run it for 5-10 minutes. Then drain the kerosene. Repeat as necessary. Once it starts looking good go with the walmart or rotella oil for a few short changes. Maybe one right off the bat to help get the kero out. Then every 1000 miles or so for a couple times.

The only change I would make to grandpa's advice is to put in a quart of transmission fluid in with the kerosene to add some lubrication. Or maybe some biodiesel if you have any handy.

-Jim
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:05 AM
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they would drain the oil, put in kerosene, and run it for 5-10 minutes. Then drain the kerosene. Repeat as necessary.
DO NOT do that to any engine. Its more healthy to have sludge than to put that through the engine.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:14 AM
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And what do you base that on?

-Jim
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:21 AM
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Common sense. There is very little lubrication properties to kero, its extremely thin (Compared to engine oil), and for the same reason it should not be run straight through the IP as fuel.
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  #21  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:32 AM
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AUTO-RX and some synthetic oil changed every 1K should clean out that gunk.
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:36 AM
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Common sense. There is very little lubrication properties to kero
That is why I said add a quart of transmission fluid for added lubrication.

Quote:
, its extremely thin (Compared to engine oil),
I didn't say go take the car for a spin and give it an Italian tune-up. I said run it for 5-10 minutes. To clarify I meant let it idle for 5-10 minutes.

Quote:
and for the same reason it should not be run straight through the IP as fuel.
Straight kero is just as "thin" as diesel. I do agree that it should not be run due to it's low lubrication properties. However, as little as 2% vegetable oil in kerosene will fix that.

-Jim
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:41 AM
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I would be carefull manually cleaning that engine. I have run across gasoline engines many times that look like that and when you start to clean lots of loose stuff ends up clogging the oil pump screen. I would run rotella for a couple of short oil changes and see if it improves. Getting all the loose pieces out may be really difficult.
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  #24  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadavis View Post
That is why I said add a quart of transmission fluid for added lubrication.


I didn't say go take the car for a spin and give it an Italian tune-up. I said run it for 5-10 minutes. To clarify I meant let it idle for 5-10 minutes.


Straight kero is just as "thin" as diesel. I do agree that it should not be run due to it's low lubrication properties. However, as little as 2% vegetable oil in kerosene will fix that.

-Jim
If diesel, will run off of Kero, than aren't you risking a run-away, if you put kero in there..? I mean....I wouldn't take very many chances, and the kero, will definately copper those bearings, in no time at all, just with it's aggressive properties. I think you shouldn't expose any more kero to it, than is absolutley necessary, for a top end cleaning. After that, just do the few short oil changes, already disgussed, and be done with it. It will clean itself out pretty well in doing that alone.
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:17 PM
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The run away engine angle is a very good one. That would make me think twice about doing it. You could still put the kerosene in there, remove the glow plugs to prevent compression, and then use the starter to circulate the kerosene a bit.

What is "coppering of the bearings"?

-Jim
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadavis View Post
Heck, this is one of the times that I would resort to my grandfather's way of cleaning out an engine. (He was a real mechanic in his day.) He told me they would drain the oil, put in kerosene, and run it for 5-10 minutes. Then drain the kerosene. Repeat as necessary. Once it starts looking good go with the walmart or rotella oil for a few short changes. Maybe one right off the bat to help get the kero out. Then every 1000 miles or so for a couple times.

The only change I would make to grandpa's advice is to put in a quart of transmission fluid in with the kerosene to add some lubrication. Or maybe some biodiesel if you have any handy.

-Jim
Actualy a member of Benzworld blew up his M117 in his 500SEL about two years ago doing this. It seems that the chain tensioner which needs oil to pump up did not, causing the timing chain to jump and bam.

I'm not saying it won't work, it just seems kind of risky to me.
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
It seems that the chain tensioner which needs oil to pump up did not, causing the timing chain to jump and bam.
...just seems kind of risky to me.
That is good enough for me!

-Jim
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I did 22,000 miles during the first year of ownership.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:23 PM
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What is "coppering of the bearings"?
Its where the bearing have been worn down to the point you can see the copper when you remove them.



Different Layers in typical overlay plated bearing are as under:

. The steel backing to give the bearing
strength and regidity.

. The copper-lead-tin intermediate, alloy lining
is permanently bonded to the steel back by
intering process. It is the lining alloy that will stand up under extreme bearing loads.

. A nickel plate or nickel barrier - just 2-3
microns thick - preventing the tin

from overplate alloy from being drawn into copper-lead alloy lining.

. The lead-tin-copper plate that easily confirms to slight irregularities
in the crankshaft journals during engine run-in.

. The pure tin flash plate which provides corrosion and rust resistance all over.

--------------

Breakdown of oil film- Severe abnormal main bearing wear located at right side of bearing and the bottom edge. The pattern on the right is called "wiping"
Attached Thumbnails
These pics are dirty!-pro_plated_bearing.jpg   These pics are dirty!-main_bearing2.jpg  

Last edited by whunter; 02-05-2011 at 07:25 PM. Reason: attached pictures
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:38 PM
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Well done..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction View Post
Its where the bearing have been worn down to the point you can see the copper when you remove them.



Different Layers in typical overlay plated bearing are as under:

. The steel backing to give the bearing
strength and regidity.

. The copper-lead-tin intermediate, alloy lining
is permanently bonded to the steel back by
intering process. It is the lining alloy that will stand up under extreme bearing loads.

. A nickel plate or nickel barrier - just 2-3
microns thick - preventing the tin

from overplate alloy from being drawn into copper-lead alloy lining.

. The lead-tin-copper plate that easily confirms to slight irregularities
in the crankshaft journals during engine run-in.

. The pure tin flash plate which provides corrosion and rust resistance all over.

--------------

Breakdown of oil film- Severe abnormal main bearing wear located at right side of bearing and the bottom edge. The pattern on the right is called "wiping"
Well done, I couldn't have explained it more thouroughly than that. Pics, to boot, where'd you even find all of that? Wish I knew how to use a puter better than I do...
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:40 PM
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where'd you even find all of that?
All hail the power of Google!

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