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  #16  
Old 04-16-2007, 05:49 PM
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While I will most likely not be getting the air kit, they show and list an interesting pcv system, I have not heard back from them, but it has to be an improvement over the stock system. especially on the N/A models.
John

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  #17  
Old 04-16-2007, 06:08 PM
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Just for fun I'll share my experience with testing a K&N setup on my 300SD for 2 weeks in phoenix a few summers ago. First of all, yes there was quite a noticeable increase in power. More noticeable in fact was the drop in power (and noise) when I went back to the stock setup. This was undeniable, no dyno testing necessary. I also built a custom air intake to shroud and blow fresh air directly on the cone, and a remote oil separator for the breather. Second, it was much louder than the stock setup at all speeds. This actually became aggravating for me and was the reason I went back to the stock setup. Third, when I did return to the stock setup I found oily sand on the interior lip of the turbo, which I'm reminded of every time I think of K&N.
If I were souping up my F-Dude jacked-up, chipped out, black smoke at the stoplight, straight 6" exhaust, construction-job-sunburn-around-my-knock-off-oakley-ass-glasses, soon-to-be-reposessed with 8k worth of rims, chick-sitting-in-the-middle truck, then sure, nothing lost. Most people don't keep cars long these days anyway.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2007, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmutt View Post
Also for the record I have already done the cone filter route. Works great until the turbo get red hot, then performance drops and runs like a dog. Great in winter, crap in 103 degree Atlanta traffic jams.
I've run this for three years and have taken many 80 mph (average speed on I-95) during the summer and haven't run into this....yet. Although I haven't done the mid-summer crawl yet.

The cone filter happens to be located just about where the the old scoop used to be. So it is in direct line for the air between the hood and the top of the headlights. I've thought about fooling around with some sort of intake system either in the cowling or perhaps the foglight, which I never use anyhow.

FWIW 0-60 time did not change. I don't like doing 0-60 very often due to the fact that the original engine, tranny, drive train (except flex disk) and axle is still in the car. Also the shift points are fine for city/town driving but are not optimum. The engine will handle it with no problem but I don't like stressing out the rest of it.

Where I can tell the significant difference is toward top end, especially going uphill. And your right it loves the winter.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2007, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolfgreen View Post
banter aside.. german engineers originally had good design.
there was someone (from pacific nw, originally referenced in one of the many threads on the topic)
that did do a "real" world study and found under normal operating conditions,
the intakes passed more paticulate comparatively to marginal performance gains..
but after seeing the finns use them on their super617, cannot argue with the modification at that level.
It's probably true that the K&N helps most for high performance engines and probably not at all for regular motors. It can be argued though that 125 hp out of a 183 cid diesel engine designed in the mid 70s may be approaching hipo, relatively speaking.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2007, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT John View Post
i installed a cone filter on a short ram. I did notice a slight boost in power before the turbo kicked in. Problem was, there was nowhere for me to connect my PCV hose.
I have a little PVC (polyvinylchloride) cylinder sitting on top, and draining into, the turbo drain tube. One end hooks to the PCV hose, the other runs back to the air intake tube connected to the air filter. (See, I didn't say 'K&N')

I'm probably going to put in a larger cylinder to ensure optimum PCV.
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Last edited by rkohut; 04-16-2007 at 09:47 PM.
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  #21  
Old 04-16-2007, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhills0146 View Post
Let us know how that magic magnet on a fuel line gives 20% better fuel mileage, too.



Don't forget about the fifteen to twenty percent HP gain from the big "fart can" ricer muffler.


You forgot the Tornado air intake and PTE oil additive.

BTW, thanks for disagreeing in a civil manner. Sarcasm is OK, personal attacks are not.

You say magnets, huh...............hmmmmm
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2007, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
when I did return to the stock setup I found oily sand on the interior lip of the turbo, which I'm reminded of every time I think of K&N.
Thanks for the heads-up.

Every winter when it gets down to around 10F, I do my compression test. I only give it one second of glow before engaging the starter. When it starts instantly it tells me the compression is still good. If that changes, I'll do some investigating.

That's good to know, thanks again.
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2007, 10:16 PM
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I tried timed and MPH runs up a 2 mile hill on my '80 300SD, and could not detect a stastical difference between an old filter, new filter and no filter. Three runs were made for each test.

So the old filter went back in.

P E H
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2007, 10:18 PM
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K&N filters. The additional airflow that you try to get, while passing more dirt, is a step closer to no filter at all, which does improve performance even more. Race engines often have K&N style, and many also run without air filters. Performance is more important than longevity here. I'll stick with a good paper filter that will keep the air clean. It is likely that the cone filter will improve airflow, and might even have some power increase. More airflow without more fuel will also reduce EGT.

As far as a cold-air intake, behind the radiator is not a cold-air location. It is also not high-pressure, the radiator blocks much of the airflow. I do love my vented fender intake, ... one of the coolest things M-B ever put on the 201 and 124 2.5L cars.

The finns use a cone filter because they're looking for airflow, not long-life. They use a simple cone filter and pipe because they have modified the engine to the point where the stock system doesn't have the CFM/capacity for the engines, plus the different turbo intake locations, impossible to use stock.

I do like the tornado reference.
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkohut View Post
K&N takes advantage of the pressurized cool air inside the engine compartment while the car is moving.
Pressurized by what? Oh yeah, the engine fan pulling 190*f air through the radiator!

Stick with the stock setup until you have made some significant modifications to the engine.
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  #26  
Old 04-16-2007, 11:23 PM
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The stock intake setup sucks. Replaced the rack damper bolt, engine mounts and shocks. Engine idles smooth for a diesel. Still was going through a set of rubber air filter mounts seemed like every oil change and one broken metal air cleaner mount. Crappy design. Did my own intake pipe with a very large K&N and a custom oil separator from a Moroso catch can. More power? Can't comment, I don't think seat of the pants is a good way to compare performance. Definitely hear the turbo all the time. Just not having to deal with the large rattling hunk of crap makes the K&N worthwhile.

Regarding the K&N and the lack of filtering. I have oil analysis records for both the work truck and the MB, 3 tests before and 3 after installation. No increase in silica or wear particles in the oil. Oil within normal parameters. No grit that I can find/feel inside the intakes either. Maybe I just drive in less dusty areas. I also oil the bejeezus out of the filters. So much that they drip. As long as the oil analysis keeps coming back clean I'll keep using them. Everybody has an opinion, and you know what they say.... RT
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2007, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwthomas1 View Post
The stock intake setup sucks. Replaced the rack damper bolt, engine mounts and shocks. Engine idles smooth for a diesel. Still was going through a set of rubber air filter mounts seemed like every oil change and one broken metal air cleaner mount. Crappy design.
That can be fixed by simply welding a steel rod along the underside of the bracket and torquing the filter nuts correctly.
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  #28  
Old 04-17-2007, 11:40 AM
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My car has so much blow by that paper filters are saturated with oil in 5 minutes. I tried a K&N stock replacement, which sucked to clean after soaked in engine oil. So I cut the tube that runs from the scoop to the air cleaner and stuck a cone between the scoop and air cleaner. Now that I know of different oil seperating ideas I might be able to use a paper filter with the oil seperating being done outside of the air cleaner. I did not do this for power, thats why I got an E420, and I know that K&Ns are not good at filtering, but I don't care because the engine seems like it only has 1/2 compresion anyway. I did it because it is easier to clean.
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  #29  
Old 04-17-2007, 12:55 PM
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For those using cone filters, have you considered boxing it so it does not get hot engine bay air, only air from the outside?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT John View Post
Tried cheap catch cans, did not help because of the amount of oil that passes through there. There was a $150 one on ebay but it didn't seem worthwhile to me.
You need an oil separator of some sort as opposite of a catch can. I have one in my car since I did not want to make the turbodiesel airfilter assembly fit in the engine bay (i.e. dream on).



Quote:
Originally Posted by rkohut View Post
It's probably true that the K&N helps most for high performance engines and probably not at all for regular motors. It can be argued though that 125 hp out of a 183 cid diesel engine designed in the mid 70s may be approaching hipo, relatively speaking.
Well, remember that Mercedes was putting out 230HP out of that engine during their Nardo runs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkohut View Post
Every winter when it gets down to around 10F, I do my compression test. I only give it one second of glow before engaging the starter. When it starts instantly it tells me the compression is still good. If that changes, I'll do some investigating..
I think the sand issue is more damaging to the compressor blades. My old blades had seen enough debris its tips rounded off. Good thing T3 turbos
are easy to find and mix-n-match.
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  #30  
Old 04-17-2007, 02:14 PM
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I vant your air intake

PO removed the air intake system and replaced it with a cone filter (not K&N brand). It's on my todo list to restore it back to original.

So.. if anyone is planning on doing the reverse, and the removed parts will fit my '83 300D Turbo, let me know, I'd like to buy them from you. Heck, maybe we can work a trade - my intake plus $ for yours - and save us both some money?

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