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  #16  
Old 05-03-2007, 08:58 PM
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Location: Reading, PA
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Hey..... some of us only have 10 year old diesels..... hoping they can make it to 20 years. (some of those electronics are pretty frightening)

I'm pretty new to diesels. It seems like everyone who sells diesel in the Berks County area of PA uses the same price signs on the curb, so I sort of sence that they all get fuel from the same places. I was buying the 'cheapest' fuel for a while, and last year I developed a nasty 'nailing' problem, that I haven't quite solve yet (diesel purge by an indy, and more recently sea foam in a fuel filter change)

I'm pretty interested in what additives actually help. I've tried diesel clean. It doesn't do much for me except may be sound like it's nailing more. I do get less smoke, but... I also sence that my power is down also. Yesterday, just for yuks, made sure I still have power (120 mph), so... power isn't a problem. I just wish I could make the car idle smooth and quiet again.
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2007, 09:06 PM
firemediceric's Avatar
1981 300 SD
 
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A link on the subject:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~mopar1973man/2002%20Dodge/Tips%20&%20Tricks/2%20cycle%20oil/2_cycle_oil.htm
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2007, 10:45 PM
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I have used 2 stroke oil with #2 in various mixtures and can say that it makes no difference in performance or mileage in MY motor. I have seen dyno results with large doses of "waste" oil that have made approx. 100 hp extra in modified cummins motors.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2007, 11:35 PM
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Posts: 54
Gunk

I have seen the gunk in a 2stroke bike, and the fouled plugs from guessing ratios. I raised this point, NOT as a means of gaining and power, but simply to improve lubrication and to see if anyone out there had any info, or preferably real hard facts on the subject. Thanks for all the links.

In a perfect world, No.2 Diesel would be all anyone would have to put in their tank, but unfortunately, fuel quality is not always perfect.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2007, 12:56 AM
compress ignite's Avatar
Drone aspiring to Serfdom
 
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Backwards Compliance of ULSD

Craig,

The Lubricity additives to bring ULSD up to the domestic standards,are to be
added to the fuel after refining (By the Jobbers???) before delivery to the
Retail units.
Guess What? SOME of the *******'* do not expend the additional costs of
the lubricity additives...WHY? 'BECAUSE IN OUR POLITICAL CLIMATE They can
get away with it!
Domestic ULSD even if it meets U.S. standards of Lubricity falls far short of
European Lubricity standards.

If I were running a 2007 Diesel, I'd still add Lubricity modifiers until I could
verify (by lab tests) the fuel.
'Even then nothing stops some bean counter from "86" ing the additives at
a later date ...with the damage to your engine unknown for possibly years.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2007, 05:59 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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and which lubricity modifyers will you be adding?

tom w
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2007, 08:56 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by compress ignite View Post
Craig,

The Lubricity additives to bring ULSD up to the domestic standards,are to be
added to the fuel after refining (By the Jobbers???) before delivery to the
Retail units.
Guess What? SOME of the *******'* do not expend the additional costs of
the lubricity additives...WHY? 'BECAUSE IN OUR POLITICAL CLIMATE They can
get away with it!
Domestic ULSD even if it meets U.S. standards of Lubricity falls far short of
European Lubricity standards.
I would be curious to hear where/when a commercial station was caught selling diesel that didn't meet the current ASTM standard for lubricity, do you have any specific examples?

I still haven't heard of a lubricity related problem in a diesel benz, nor have I seen any recommendations from MBUSA to use anything other than #2 ULSD or B5 in the U.S. Do you know of any actually issues related to lubricity in a benz engine, or do you have any applicable information from MBUSA?

If you really think it's necessary, go buy a proper diesel additive. Personally, I think you are wasting your time/money, but have a ball if it makes you sleep better. I will just buy my fuel from major commercial stations.

Please let us know if you have any actual information, but at the moment I still think this is another ULSD old wives tale.
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  #23  
Old 06-02-2007, 08:00 PM
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I'm not sure that 2 stroke oil would be necessary in our oil-lubricated Mercedes IPs-but, I've run it in my Cummins powered Dodge's fuel-lubricated VP44 IP, already lost one under warranty (due to internal binding/timing issues), next one's mine to buy. I'd like to hear from some of the high mileage 123 owners-how many have had IP problems of any kind ever, mine is at 164K now, other than a new primer, filters, and an occasional diesel purge appears original, I would hate to risk causing a problem where there isn't one now (got enough things to fix already...).
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2007, 08:39 PM
Craig
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Originally Posted by bullwinkle View Post
I'd like to hear from some of the high mileage 123 owners-how many have had IP problems of any kind ever, mine is at 164K now, other than a new primer, filters, and an occasional diesel purge appears original, I would hate to risk causing a problem where there isn't one now (got enough things to fix already...).
I replaced the IP in my 300D somewhere around 300K+ miles. It developed a fuel leak that replacing the seals did not fix. Due to the mileage, I decided to just replace it instead of playing around trying to have it repaired/rebuilt. The leak may have been related to ULSD, but with that many miles, who knows?
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2007, 10:39 PM
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Okay I'll bite....what is ULSD? Sorry for my ignorance - I guess I live in a cave and don't get out much.
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  #26  
Old 06-02-2007, 10:49 PM
AHH,What's up Doc????
 
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It did catch the attention of an engineer! There will be no real benefit to adding 2 stroke motor oil to your fuel to counter-act the effects of ULSD. You would be better off just going to the grocery store and putting in a quart of cooking oil to your diesel. You can add as much as a gallon with no ill effects! This will be much better for your engine than 2 stroke engine oil which will bind things up pretty good if your going to do this a lot.
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2007, 12:03 AM
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FWIW, my E300 is running better than ever on 100% biodiesel....
All the lubricity in the world, none of the sulfur........

I DO have an O-ring failure that I can directly attribute to the lubricity of ULSD. I had been running B100 in the E300 for two years when, while away from home last October, I needed to fill up. The only fuels available were ULSD and ag-diesel, I opted for a tank of ULSD (be thankful, IRS). Not a week later, the car developed a good leak at the IP's electric shutoff solenoid. I replaced the O-ring (old one was cracked), filled up with biodiesel, and I've never had any problems since.

What do you guys think?
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  #28  
Old 06-03-2007, 12:55 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by Knightrider966 View Post
It did catch the attention of an engineer! There will be no real benefit to adding 2 stroke motor oil to your fuel to counter-act the effects of ULSD. You would be better off just going to the grocery store and putting in a quart of cooking oil to your diesel. You can add as much as a gallon with no ill effects! This will be much better for your engine than 2 stroke engine oil which will bind things up pretty good if your going to do this a lot.
Please note that this in not the unanimous opinion of the engineers here.

You will not find me adding 2 stroke oil or "cooking oil" to my fuel (Does anyone have the ASTM spec for cooking oil handy?). If you do feel the need to add something (probably a waste of time/money) try an actual diesel fuel additive. If you feel the need to use bio-diesel, benz has only endorsed the use of up to B5 (I think they have a few engineers working there, too).
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  #29  
Old 06-03-2007, 01:01 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by franklyspeaking View Post
Okay I'll bite....what is ULSD? Sorry for my ignorance - I guess I live in a cave and don't get out much.
Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel, the stuff that's been mandated in the U.S. for about a year now, with a maximum of 15 PPM sulfur. Also, the cause of much the current "sky is falling" panic. This stuff has been blamed for just about everything from leaky 25 year old o-rings to jock itch.
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  #30  
Old 06-03-2007, 01:09 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by BioPOWER View Post
I DO have an O-ring failure that I can directly attribute to the lubricity of ULSD....

What do you guys think?
I think that the tendency of ULSD to aggravate old seals and "cause leaks" has nothing to do with it's lubricity. These are two completely different issues.

The concern with old seals beginning to leak is probably legitimate, although I don't think a 20+ year old seal needs much of an excuse to start leaking at any time. The concern with lubricity, not so much, ULSD meets the current ASTM lubricity specs; and lubricity (or lack of lubricity) has nothing to do with seal leaks.
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