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  #1  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:08 PM
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Using starting fluid (ether) in an MB diesel?

Howdy fellow dieselers!

So we all have heard anecdotes that using starting fluid (ether) in a Mercedes diesel engine is a no-no. The usual warnings mention things like shattered prechambers, bent conencting rods, and other general unpleasantries.

My question: Is there anything in print from Mercedes about this? I can't find any documentation in the owner's manual, WIS, FSM, or otherwise that says anything about it. If someone could tell me where to find official information about this, I would GREATLY appreciate it - and I'll post it on my website for future reference as well.


Reader's Digest version of why I'm asking:
My dad's 87 300D suddenly lost power and died while cruising down the road earlier this week, like it was out of fuel (tank is 3/4 full). He had it towed home, tried re-starting, it refused to start. Changed fuel filters, but it still would not start (yes, he pre-filled the new filter with clean diesel). A friend of his (with a Cummins-powered truck) persuaded him to tow it to a local diesel shop that works on his Cummins. The mechanic there liberally sprayed ether into the intake while checking for fuel at the injectors, etc, but didn't have time to work on it further, he was going to continue this AM. My dad told me this last night, I told my dad to call the shop first thing this AM and politely ask them not to use ether on the Mercedes. The mechanic then proceeded to launch into a tirade with lots of colorful language and a few minutes later told my dad to come take his car away, which my dad happily did. The car is now at a European car repair ship in upstate NY waiting for a hopefully more-knowledgeable mechcanic to look at it. My dad's friend isn't happy at the moment, and I'm not sure the second shop will be bright enough not to use ether, so I'm trying to dig up SOME kind of documentation to show mechanics, my dad, my dad's friend, etc that ether is not recommended for Mercedes high-compression, indirect-injection diesels. I'd love to work on this myself but unfortunately, I'm 3000 miles away.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!!





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  #2  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:26 PM
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Every can of starter fluid says "for gas and diesel engines".

I've used the stuff but cringed and the sounds the engine makes.

I've found that a little dribble of regular gasoline into the intake housing ususally produces desirable results. A lot gentler on my diesel engines.

Just a sprinkle is all you need. I think it's the gas fumes that get the job done.
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:30 PM
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I could copy the page in my owner's manual that states not to use it in the car.
it's an 85 Euro TD manual though...
however, if your car lost power on the road, will not start, and compression checks have been done, and found to be low, ether may be the only go get it going. tow starting has been known to get one going. mostlikely it's air in the system though. get a temp tank setup in the fuel system, and BLEED BLEED BLEED the system and the IP. too bad you are not nearby...
have fun.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:35 PM
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use of eather to start Benz

It is not a good idea to use ether in Mercedes engines. WD 40 works,and ether will if you do not use glow plugs,crank it cold and give it a shot,the eng will start if it is not broke.Tom
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Old 05-03-2007, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlbro1 View Post
ether will if you do not use glow plugs,crank it cold and give it a shot,the eng will start if it is not broke.Tom
so you think it's the glow system that makes ether incompatible with our MB's? hmm. could be, the large cat's that have ether injection starting systems do not have glow plugs...
John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:46 PM
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ether is not good for any diesel. It should be used only in desperation. A diesel engine will become "addicted" to it. Something about extreme cylinder pressures, ring issues, blow by, crankcase pressure and lost compression come to mind.

Don't get me wrong I've used it, but its not the right way to do things.
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:50 PM
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the "addiction" is due to the total lack of lubrication with ether. it washes oil off everything. and this can severly wear out moving friction parts. valves, cylinders, rings, etc... WD40 is just as flammable, and it has some lubrication with it.
John
where does your dad live? I might be close to him.
I could lend a hand...
john
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Craig
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FWIW, Wikipedia specifically mentions use of starting fluid in direct injection diesel and gasoline engines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starting_fluid
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:26 PM
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Often useful when starting direct injected diesel engines
ours are however INdirect injected engines...
John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:30 PM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Often useful when starting direct injected diesel engines
ours are however INdirect injected engines...
John
Yup, that was my point.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:42 PM
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for vteck

There is not a piece/part of a 3208 Cat that I have not had in my hand,They come equiped with a canister holder for ether. But as a beliver in the 3208 V8 most cold weather situations they will roll and fire up.Tom
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2007, 03:12 PM
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I see a lot of replies that echo the mechanic who vented at my dad, insinuating that a diesel is a diesel is a diesel. This is not true. Ether is ok for low-compression, direct-injection diesels without glow plugs (like on heavy equipment). Most cans of starting fluid will state something about not using it in high compression diesels with glow plugs.

It's not acceptable under ANY circumstances in a Mercedes or VW, even if the glow plugs are disconnected. I now remember something about it causing broken piston rings as well due to igniting too soon before the piston reaches TDC.

John, where in your owner's manual is starting fluid mentioned? Maybe I missed it while looking in my manual. My dad is in upstate NY, north of Albany. Probably a bit of a drive from NC...

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  #13  
Old 05-03-2007, 03:29 PM
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yup, too far for me... sorry.
sorry your dad got a bad mechanic... I hope he gets a good one to figure out the problem.
John
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:28 PM
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Starting fluid is for diesels WITHOUT glow plugs.

It's not a crutch for failing to maintain engine components.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2007, 07:37 PM
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I've double-checked the owner's manual on my 1987 and 1993 300D's, neither mention starting fluid anywhere. Do the older manuals (W123, W126) have any mention of this?


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