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  #1  
Old 05-09-2007, 03:11 PM
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transmission flare, what is it? Do I have it?

What exactly is transmission "flare"? I think my 190D 2.2 might have it.

I see lots of posts that refer to this symptom but no actual description of this event.

My 190 has some strange shifting...but without understanding the "special terms" it's hard to diagnose or us the search function usefully

It's like it's starting in 2nd gear (it is supposed to start in 2nd?), shifts to 3rd, then suddenly back to 2nd at a high RPM and kinda "hangs" there until shifting back to 3rd again kinda hard and finally to 4th....is this the "flare"

But if I am gentle with the throttle, it seems to shift normally up to 4th.

There is a linkage that crosses over the valve cover from the throttle to a cable (bowden cable?) that I presume goes to the transmission. This linkage is two pieces that loosely slide together with about 1-2" of movement and there is an adjustment of some type at one end to change the length of this rod but does not change the sliding action of this rod....is this sliding supposed to happen or are the fasteners loose and allowing sliding where none should be?

Any good write ups of the 190 diesel transmission linkage & adjustments?
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2007, 03:15 PM
Jim B.'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odie View Post
What exactly is transmission "flare"? I think my 190D 2.2 might have it.

it's like it's starting in 2nd gear (it is supposed to start in 2nd?), shifts to 3rd, then suddenly back to 2nd at a high RPM and kiIda "hangs" there until shifting back to 3rd again kinda hard and finally to 4th....is this the "flare"
Yes, that is a description of transmission flare.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2007, 03:32 PM
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I'd have called it transmission " flail "

anyway, guess I have a starting place for my problem. Hope it's curable or can be adjusted out.
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1987 300TDT
1981 VW MKI Caddy 1.6 diesel, waiting on engine swap
1983 D-50 Power Ram 4x4 "Mitsubishi" 2.3 turbo diesel
assorted gas powered crap and motorcycles

RIP: 1984 300TDT, 1982 300TDT, 1984 190D 2.2, 1992 300D 2.5, 1987 300TDT, 1982 Maxima LD28, 1983 Maxima LD28, Isuzu C223 P'ups X3, 1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 Banks turbo diesel, 1984 Winnebago LeSharo 2.1 TD, 1985 Allegro 6.5
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Old 05-09-2007, 03:52 PM
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IIRC, a flare feels something like a slippage and engine RPM increases, and when there is a gear change, it's really mushy.
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2007, 03:58 PM
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If I'm heavy on the pedal all my shifts are good except 3rd to 4th, that one seems to hang mid-shift. engine RPM's increase but as soon as I let off on the throttle, the shift to forth is complete and I can stomp on it again.

I think that is "flare". I hate it but have no idea how to adjust that stuff.
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  #6  
Old 05-09-2007, 04:24 PM
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I'm finding almost non-existant information on the 190 diesel and transmission. I need to figure out how all the throttle/trans/shiftlinkage is supposed to be set. I'm thinking either the cable of the linkage rods are way off.

I have found a Haynes manual that supposedly covers the 190 diesels...English/British edition I assume...anyone know if this is applicable to US diesel models? Would be worth it to buy.
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1987 300TDT
1981 VW MKI Caddy 1.6 diesel, waiting on engine swap
1983 D-50 Power Ram 4x4 "Mitsubishi" 2.3 turbo diesel
assorted gas powered crap and motorcycles

RIP: 1984 300TDT, 1982 300TDT, 1984 190D 2.2, 1992 300D 2.5, 1987 300TDT, 1982 Maxima LD28, 1983 Maxima LD28, Isuzu C223 P'ups X3, 1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 Banks turbo diesel, 1984 Winnebago LeSharo 2.1 TD, 1985 Allegro 6.5
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  #7  
Old 05-09-2007, 05:01 PM
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Sounds a little like you may be activating the kick down device below the pedal as well to some extent. A consistant description of flairing to me is the transmission slips and engine revolutions build until the next gear is solidly engaged.
Your hopping around in gears does not strike me as the same thing but flairing could be a component of it as well. You may very well have to separate the issues to deal with them.
If the pedal is pressed to the floor it is going to change things like the gear you are in and when you get out of it in my opinion. Plus it is quite possible it will take you down a gear.
I would start simply by seeing if the linkage to the injector pump pushes the lever on the pump all the way to its stop with someone holding the pedal down. If not adjust or repair that first and see what transpires. You might be trying to drive the car with very limited linkage action. That would tend to make you want to hit the floor with the pedal just for normal driving. Just a thought.

Last edited by barry123400; 05-10-2007 at 10:21 AM.
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2007, 08:59 AM
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The pedal is not being pushed to the floor. Maybe 1/4 - 1/2 pedal only and it's shifting to a gear that feels one gear too low for the driving situation.

It's like it "kicking down" at light-med throttle action and staying kicked down too long. I would expect kickdown action at heavy-full throttle action.
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1987 300TDT
1981 VW MKI Caddy 1.6 diesel, waiting on engine swap
1983 D-50 Power Ram 4x4 "Mitsubishi" 2.3 turbo diesel
assorted gas powered crap and motorcycles

RIP: 1984 300TDT, 1982 300TDT, 1984 190D 2.2, 1992 300D 2.5, 1987 300TDT, 1982 Maxima LD28, 1983 Maxima LD28, Isuzu C223 P'ups X3, 1983 Holiday Rambler 6.2 Banks turbo diesel, 1984 Winnebago LeSharo 2.1 TD, 1985 Allegro 6.5
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  #9  
Old 05-10-2007, 10:06 AM
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I agree but just wondered earlier. It might have been the easiest item if bad. Linkage problems to the pump are commom in my experience. At least that is out of the way.
Since I believe the bowden cable controls the point of shifting depending on the amount of throttle. It does not sound like the total problem but it does control the shift points. You could mark it so you can restore the original length if you wish and try adjusting its length. Read the archives a little under bowden cable.
Also with my limited knowledge of automatic transmissions I unfortunatly have limited ideals of simple fixes. It is difficult for me to understand the transmission shifting down on normal acceleration once it has caught the next gear up.
That was the wild card in your description that disturbed me and got me thinking. Others with far more knowledge should post soon. One last thought though as it"s pretty easy to do. How about disconnecting the kickdown switch in case it"s defective and always on. Yours would not be the first kickdown switch to be defective in this fashion..

Last edited by barry123400; 05-10-2007 at 10:25 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2007, 02:09 PM
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I bought my 190 with the same flaring problems only it was on both the 2-3 and the 3-4 shifts. 3-4 was much worse...it felt like the tranny would drop right in to neutral for 2 seconds then grab the next gear and hold it so I figured it's not a clutch pack slipping problem... the 1-2 shift was rock solid.

after brousing threads on this board and others I ran across a shift kit (i'll have to dig up the link). after pulling the valve body and rebuilding it with the new shift spring kit it drives like a dream. Here's a link to pics: Linky

I didn't mess with the vacumm modulator or the bowden cable thingy. Now it shifts smoothy (starting in second with 1/4 pedal) but not slams from 2-3 at about 2500rpm's then 3-4 at about 3000. at 1/2 pedal it drops to 1 then back up to 2...then 2-3 and 3-4 both around 3500...

right now I'm about 95% satisfied...sometimes it shifts unexpectedly, usually when cold.

mines got 210K on the clock, I don't have any maintainance history on this tranny so to the best of my knowledge it is original. the PO was an older couple so judging by the condition of the rest of the car it was babied.
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2008, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezlee View Post
I bought my 190 with the same flaring problems only it was on both the 2-3 and the 3-4 shifts. 3-4 was much worse...it felt like the tranny would drop right in to neutral for 2 seconds then grab the next gear and hold it so I figured it's not a clutch pack slipping problem... the 1-2 shift was rock solid.

after brousing threads on this board and others I ran across a shift kit (i'll have to dig up the link). after pulling the valve body and rebuilding it with the new shift spring kit it drives like a dream. Here's a link to pics: Linky

I didn't mess with the vacumm modulator or the bowden cable thingy. Now it shifts smoothy (starting in second with 1/4 pedal) but not slams from 2-3 at about 2500rpm's then 3-4 at about 3000. at 1/2 pedal it drops to 1 then back up to 2...then 2-3 and 3-4 both around 3500...

right now I'm about 95% satisfied...sometimes it shifts unexpectedly, usually when cold.

mines got 210K on the clock, I don't have any maintainance history on this tranny so to the best of my knowledge it is original. the PO was an older couple so judging by the condition of the rest of the car it was babied.
do you know if it is required to split the valve body in half to install the shift kit? I was messing around with a spare one and it would appear as though you can install them without splitting the valve body
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