Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-20-2007, 02:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
123 Wagon Spring Struts-2 Versions-Interchangeable?

Greetings From "The Big Easy" (which isn't so big anymore and sure isn't easy),

I recently picked up an '82 300TDt with a few major issues but in really nice shape on the outside, sort of like a Pretty Blonde. I have searched this forum and the DIY forum and gotten quite a bit of good information. The first issue I am tackling is the rear (SLS) suspension system. Somewhere along the line some idiot CUT OUT both the pressure line, about 3" from the front pressure hose fitting, and the return line, about 1' from the supply tank and fabricated some fitting out of the two cut out pieces so the pump is hooked directly to the supply tank and just makes a continuous loop. In the rear they just disconnected the lines from the accumulators to the struts and installed SensaTrac shocks.

What I am curious about is that in reading the 123 service manual I noticed that there are two versions of Struts. The first was produced up until August of '82 and the other began in September of '82. Since my car was manufactured in Nov '81 it must have been originally equipped with V#1 Struts (confirmed by shape of frame crossmember). Since I have read multiple times in my research that Struts seldom go bad I was going to try and pull some off another wagon as opposed to buying new ones. Has anyone out there encountered this situation? According to the manual I think I have to go with V#1 Struts; "Owing to the modification of the frame floor, a conversion from the 1st version to the second version is not possible," in which case I am limited in cars I can pull from. Has anyone found a way to adapt V#2 Struts to pre Sept '82 vehicles? Or should I go with new ones and if so, can I even find them?

If I do have to go with V#1 Struts I am confused by the installation procedure; "move rear end of vehicle into level specified for loaded vehicle. For this purpose, measure semi-trailing arm position of rear axle and load rear end accordingly by placing weights into passenger compartment." I am unclear as to what this is telling me. Can anyone clarify exactly what this means? It would be alot easier if I could go with V#2 as the manual says "for install of version 2 the level of the vehicle can be neglected."

Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated.

peace,
woody
__________________
peace,
Woody
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-21-2007, 03:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
A Little Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovinola View Post
According to the manual I think I have to go with V#1 Struts; "Owing to the modification of the frame floor, a conversion from the 1st version to the second version is not possible," in which case I am limited in cars I can pull from.
In addition to my other questions I also wanted to know what other Mercedes used these Version 1 struts other than the wagons so I can expand my search to find some decent used ones? Anyone got a pair out there by any chance?
__________________
peace,
Woody
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-21-2007, 04:03 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 26,290
good luck finding anything other than a TD with the SLS system. they are out there, but VERY RARE>
and almost all euro.
John
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-22-2007, 01:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
Learning on the Fly; 1 strut, 2 bushing kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovinola View Post
...in reading the 123 service manual I noticed that there are two versions of Struts. The first was produced up until August of '82 and the other began in September of '82. "Owing to the modification of the frame floor, a conversion from the 1st version to the second version is not possible" ....
I learned today that there are not two versions of the struts but instead there are two versions of the bushing kit that attach the upper suspension of the struts. this makes complete sense and rests my head a bit more at ease as I have a few choices from which to pull the best struts from and then i can purchase the bushing kit seperately for around $20. I still could use some advice on the following quandry:

Quote:
Originally Posted by groovinola View Post
....I am confused by the installation procedure; "move rear end of vehicle into level specified for loaded vehicle. For this purpose, measure semi-trailing arm position of rear axle and load rear end accordingly by placing weights into passenger compartment." I am unclear as to what this is telling me. Can anyone clarify exactly what this means?
Has anyone else used the MB Service Manual Disc and found it confusing or is it just my inexperience?

peace,
woody
__________________
peace,
Woody
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-22-2007, 06:14 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tarn, SW France
Posts: 67
Hi Woody,
I'm right in the middle of chopping and changing the rear strut and trailing arm from a scrap 123 ambulance onto my 240td. I think that the stuff about weighting the car down when reinstalling only applies if you're using version 1: "Upper suspension of spring struts of 1 st version (up
to August 1982) consists of ball shell rubber mounts.
Assemble only at level specified for loaded vehicle!
If this assembly instruction is not complied with,
distortion of bearing and thereby of spring strut
piston rod involves the risk of rattling noises and
early wear both of bearing as well as of the spring
strut itself
."
I take this to read that version 2 struts can be refitted more or less like a conventional shocker.. but if I mess up I'll let ya know!
I've also read that the struts don't change.. but I've got two slightly different ones on the bench here: 1 is like shown in the manual, the other has a threaded rod that takes a nut at the top and the hydraulic connections are different too....right now I can't remove the recessed allen headed bolt holding in the upper mount... why didn't they use a nut?
Take care
Giles
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-22-2007, 08:12 AM
Shawn D.'s Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by groovinola View Post
Has anyone else used the MB Service Manual Disc and found it confusing or is it just my inexperience?
No, I think its quality is lacking.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-22-2007, 10:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
Using Version 1-pre 8/82 Vehicle

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarnbarn View Post
... I think that the stuff about weighting the car down when reinstalling only applies if you're using version 1
Hey Giles,

Unfortunately I am installing the struts on an '82 wagon (mfd 11/81) so I have to use the version 1 upper suspension mounts which means i have to: Assemble only at level specified for loaded vehicle! What is this level and with how much weight in it? It also says to measure semi-trailing arm position of rear axle and load rear end accordingly. No Comprende!

As for the struts, the ones I pulled today are also like the ones in the manual with the hex bolt on top. i got lucky that I had a #6 hex attachment for my wratchet and they came right out. I did have to fight the pressure hose attached to the strut a little but all in all it was a good day. i also got two rear springs out of the deal. i don't know anything about the other type of strut you have as i haven't come across any yet in my journey into the heart of the suspension but perhaps they are out of the non-wagon Euro sedans that were mentioned earlier.

Maybe the problem with the written portion of the manual is in the translation from German.
__________________
peace,
Woody

Last edited by groovinola; 05-23-2007 at 03:47 AM. Reason: added information
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-24-2007, 05:50 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tarn, SW France
Posts: 67
Woody,
It also says to look at section 40-310 (which I don't have) to get the measurements. I guess you then just jack it up to where it should be and carry on... have fun
Giles
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-24-2007, 11:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
Proper Height?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarnbarn View Post
It also says to look at section 40-310 (which I don't have) to get the measurements. I guess you then just jack it up to where it should be and carry on...
Yea I noticed that omission as well. I looked for 40-310 and it isn't to be found on the disc. Right now the rear end is up on ramps. I am thinking I need to jack the front end up to level and then load the rear somehow. I was hoping to do all this on Sunday. So How do I find out the correct measurement and how much weight needs to be placed into the passenger compartment and where in the passenger compartment should the weight be put? So many questions so few answers. Isn't there anyone out there who has done this job that can help out? I would be eternally grateful.
__________________
peace,
Woody
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-25-2007, 12:00 AM
JimmyL's Avatar
Rogue T Intolerant!!!
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Texas (DFW)
Posts: 9,673
Heck Woody,
I've had both styles, yet never knew there was a difference.
I have only had to replace accumulators, a pump and the high pressure hose on both. Haven't had a strut issue yet, and hope to keep the string alive......
I am watching your thread though with interest. Good luck!
__________________
Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-25-2007, 08:50 AM
Bajaman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posts: 713
It is utterly confusing

I agree that the FSM is very confusing on this issue. It says to load the vehicle to the "loaded" position. If the SLS system is working properly, the "loaded" position should be the same as an unloaded position. When I rebuilt my rear suspension last year I didn't have the FSM and just put everything together in the full droop position. I have a rattle somewhere back there when I go over bumps, and I am suspecting the improper installment as the culprit. To be honest, I really don't understand how installing at a specific level will really change things though.
bb
__________________
For Sale: 1982 MB 300TD
1995 Chevrolet Suburban 6.5TD

Sold: 1980 IH Scout Traveler- Nissan SD33T Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-26-2007, 01:29 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
So I'm not alone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajaman View Post
...When I rebuilt my rear suspension last year I didn't have the FSM and just put everything together in the full droop position. I have a rattle somewhere back there when I go over bumps, and I am suspecting the improper installment as the culprit.
Bajaman,

It does say in section 32-610 Pg.3 that "if assembly instruction (at level specified for loaded vehicle) is not complied with, distortion of the bearing and thereby of spring strut piston rod involves the risk of rattling noises and early wear both of the bearing as well as of the spring strut itself." I'm assuming this is the situation with your wagon and what i am trying to avoid in my situation. Unfortunately no one seems to know the answer. I even called the best Mercedes mechanic I know out in Glenwood Springs, CO today and he didn't know about this either!! Who to go to next??? Anyone know the best of the best. I know someone out there has the answer.

peace,
woody

p.s. make sure you check your swaybars in the back. They can often be the cause of rattling in the rear end.
__________________
peace,
Woody

Last edited by groovinola; 05-26-2007 at 02:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:13 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
Bumped at request of whunter
__________________
peace,
Woody
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:36 PM
whunter's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 17,354
Hmmm

I will review this ASAP, after work.





Have a great day.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic
asemastermechanic@juno.com

Prototype R&D/testing:
Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician.
Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH).
Dynamometer.
Heat exchanger durability.
HV-A/C Climate Control.
Prototype Vehicle build.
Prototype Fleet Durability
Prototype vehicle instrumentation.
Technical Quality Auditor.
Automotive Technical Writer

1973 300D
1973 309D - stolen
1978 280SE
1980 240D
1983 300D
1984 190D
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-29-2007, 04:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 67
Mystery Values

Roy,

If you can somehow come up with the values specified in table "vehicle level on rear axle under load" 40-310 it would probably go a long way towards solving this mystery. Specifically the amount of weight that needs to be put into the vehicle for it to be considered "loaded" and the measurement parameters of semi-trailing arm position of the rear axle under load.

thanks for your assistance,

woody
__________________
peace,
Woody
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page