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  #1  
Old 06-07-2001, 08:16 PM
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After replying to another post about diesels, it reminded me of a story I recently read about a new "envirodiesel", that makes your exhaust smell like french fires. Some company has developed a way to turn old vegitable oil from resturants into a hybrid diesel fuel. They say it does make your exhaust smell like french fires. Right now the immediate downside is that it cost $3.15 a gal. in San Fransico. I forget what they said it does for your fuel economy. This article was put out by the AP, so I assume other papers got the same story. What also makes this story funny is, a while back someone started a thread about what can you use in a pinch if you run out of diesel. Someone said they heard of someone running into a grocery store a buying some veg. or peanut oil.
I can see it now, us diesel owners will be indirectly helping McDonalds sell more food. We'll be driving around giving everyone behind us the cravings for fast food.
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  #2  
Old 06-07-2001, 10:44 PM
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Fat-Assed Mercedes Owners...

Stopping off to get the leavin's from Micky D's, "The King" and all the rest? No I don't think so...

Check this:

http://www.biodiesel.org

http://www.biodiesel.com

http://www.greenfuels.org/bioindex.html

http://www.americanbiodiesel.com
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  #3  
Old 06-08-2001, 01:31 AM
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Got a problem with a cleaner fuel that lubricates?

Greetings Scott,

Hey, I think it would be nice to be able to have a fish fry on the weekend and strain the oil to get me to work on Monday, course I work most weekends anyway, so the wife will have to do the straining of the fuel. If it's been proven to work, and actually does good for the environment as well as added life to our diesels, what's the problem? I think if the industry can get the price in line to meet or beat diesel fuel prices, we've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. I think I'd rather be spitting out exhaust that smells like well cooked frys with no smoke verses a small cloud that ultimately causes you harm.
You live in California, surely you can see their point with emmission concerns.

Charles
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  #4  
Old 06-08-2001, 04:36 PM
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Sorry I Wasn't Clearer...

If I were against biodiesel, (and why would anyone be?) why would I go to the trouble to post links to informational sites pertaining to it's manufacture and use?

Even Rudolph Diesel, who invented the combustion process envisioned using plant oils as fuel. "The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in the course of time as important as petroleum and coal tar products of the present time."

Rudolph Diesel, 1912

My point was that straight vegetable oil isn't biodiesel yet, and the smell of french fries and popcorn isn't derived from it being recycled fast food fry oil, it's just the byproduct of combustion of the (usually) soy based oil itself.

Unfortunately, at this time, the biodiesel fuel is twice the price of regular diesel, and isn't available anywhere near me.

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  #5  
Old 06-16-2001, 10:07 PM
fryerpowered
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smells like french fries

My biodiesel don't smell like french fries. I get my oil from several restaurants.(none from the "big" chains as I have discovered that they "overuse" their oil. Instead I obtain mine from my cousin andseveral other restaurants in the area. I also get some from various concession stand owners. Most of the time the exhaust smells more like a Bar-B-Q grill that is warming up to cook some steaks. I think this might have something to do with the "blackening seasonins" that my cousin uses on his Prime Rib Special. I can't seem to get away from the aroma. I love it, BTW it don't cost $3 per gallon to produce it yourself! Tom
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  #6  
Old 06-16-2001, 11:49 PM
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How on earth do you make your own diesel?
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2001, 01:07 AM
fryerpowered
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own diesel

Rick, I'm sorry if I mislead you. I thought I posted BIO-Diesel. Does that make it sound a little more possible? I'm by no means an expert but if you would care to look I recently put this up to make it more clear. Tom http://www.virtue.nu/biodiesel/
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2001, 01:24 AM
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Got me interested

Greetings Tom,

What exactly do you do with the oil and machinery you have to make a mix? What is your concentration of oil verses diesel? Any benefits or drawbacks that you've noticed? Are there specific oils to use, etc. ? Please elaborate on the whole setup and mileage if you've noticed an increase or decrease. Got me curious now as whether I should be knocking on a few local restarants doors to see where their oil goes when they're done with it, and whether it's a viable fuel additive or partial replacement.

Charles
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2001, 02:49 PM
fryerpowered
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Bio-Diesel

Howdy all, looks like I have a little explaining to do eh? Well this all started for me around the end of '98 early '99. I've been addicted to diesel smoke every since I was a kid and hauling firewood with an old International "M" diesel tractor. ( these are quite rare) Any how, I was up real late one night and answering email when I recieved a notice about some greenpeace crap going on and I went to their site to "give 'em heck" and came across the veggievan site. see http://www.veggievan.org There is a lot of info. available from this page you can find lots of links.
They call the process "transesterfication" basically in laymans terms they are using taking the used vegoil and breaking down the carbon chains in the atoms. This makes the oil less viscid and it is closer to the same as petroleum diesel fuel. It is done by mixing 20% methanol and the proper amount of caustic soda "lye drain opener" into the used oil. (You can use new oil also) This is mixed for one hour and then left to "settle" for 8 hours. At the end of 8 hours you drain the byproduct off the bottom. ( this is the methanol and lye which has worked through the veg-oil and settled to the bottm and taken with it all the free fatty acids (FFA). The byproduct is glycerin hand soap, we use it for cleaning our hands after working on the car and stuff. It can actually be composted in the garden too as it's non-toxic at this point. Everything above the glycerin is Bio-Diesel. (which is basically the same volume as the veg-oil you used initially) You have just catalyzed it and made it thinner. Bio-diesel or (methyl esters) are also non-toxic and biodegradable. If spilled on the ground it will be completely degraded in less than 30 days, petroleum diesel will take several months to break down. I have run on a 50/50 mix with petro diesel and I have also been running lately on 100% biodiesel. I have been pretty busy lately so I haven't gotten together my straight oil conversions. Eventually I will run on straight waste oil with out making it into biodiesel. ( this is a whole different story) The fuel mileage is basically the same as with petroleum diesel. My Rabbits get 42mpg ( stop and start driving that is 600 times in 120 miles) and my 300TD gets 27-28mpg. on straight bio-d. On petroleum diesel the mileage is the same or even a bit lower at times. There is NO smoke and the emissions are lower compared to regular diesel fuel. The only downside is that it has a higher cloud point than petro diesel, so it gells at a higher temp. say around 25F, that is why I mix it 50/50 in the winter. (a preheated tank would also fix this) just tore down my '82 Rabbit to replace the head gasket this weekend (432k miles) and the inside of the engine is clean enough to eat off of. The only thing I did was take a dry paper towel and brush off a little powdery soot. (it burns very clean) There wasn't any crusty buildup at all on the pistons either. Bio-d is a cleaner alternative all the way around and it also has more lubricity ( go ahead take all the sulfur out of pump diesel I don't care I'll just dump in some bio-d for lubricant) I don't use tranny fluid anymore as a lubricity additive :~) It costs about $2.50 per gallon here for Methanol which makes 5 gallons of fuel, and a can of Red Devil Lye drain opener costs about $3 (that is the BIG can and it will make 30 gallons) In the end you end up with fuel that costs about .55-.60 per gallon and an hour or so of your time per batch. Whether it is a 5 gallon batch or a 500 gallon batch. I use about 40-50 gallons per week so it really makes a difference for me. I hope I answered some of your questions, if not just ask I will be happy to share Tom
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2001, 03:13 PM
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Doesn't Anyone Ever Use The Links I Post?

Excuse me, but if you all had gone to the links I already posted in this thread, there is information there on making your own Bio-Diesel fuel from a do it at home kit... ...If you can home-brew, you can make Bio-Diesel, but I think for now, I'll pass...

The commercial Bio-Diesel is made from Soybeans, but there is a movement afoot to produce Bio-Diesel on your own from recycled fryer grease.

http://www.webpan.com/bef/biodies.htm

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

Now if anyone is really interested in Bio-Diesel, they should go back and read the other links, ok?

Tom, Thanks for being our expert on this new subject, we need as much information from informed sources as we can get...
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  #11  
Old 06-17-2001, 04:52 PM
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Thanks Tom, Great input

Greetings Tom,

I found your post quite interesting as well as the links you provided. To bad the workshop is already booked up, would of made a nice learning vacation. I think we all wanted to hear from someone that actually either made the stuff themselves and have used it with success. Going to the biodiesel website and chatting with a few of the Aussie's I found several that make the veggy fuel but don't actually use it, and others that seem like they're in business to fuel their neighborhoods. I see there's still a lot of reading to do on the topic as far as what equipment to use, how to build it and where to get the chemicals to keep production costs in line. I don't have the outback as my backyard and seem somewhat limited with space on my property, but after doing a little planning, it may be a viable option to escalating fuel costs. I just need a way to approach the local establishments concerning getting their used oil. Seems like I'd be stepping on somebodies contract in doing so. What are your main sources for used oil?

Thanks,

Charles
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2001, 05:48 PM
fryerpowered
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links and supplies

By all means check out the other links above they are all good places to start researching. I get my feedstock for fuel from 3 local restaurants. ( mostly mom and pop type) and a few concession stand folk that setup at fairs and such. In fact these are the best places I've found. they are more than happy to get rid of their oi because most of them have to take it home and pour it down the kitchen sink! Right now I have contracts with 3 restaurants and I provide them with containers to put their used oil in. ( They even filter it a little before I get it. (down to 50 microns/screen filter) I have my eye on a few others, but am waiting for their current contracts to run out. ( Like Bill Knapps which is a major chain around here) I just find out how much they are currently paying to have their waste picked up and reduce it. If I'm already in the area and it is a small amount of grease, I will even take it for free. (Like the big restaurant here in town) pop. of Clarksville is 320 souls. They only produce about 3 gallons per week and it's only a block from my house. I pick it up for free rather than them paying the waste hauler to pick it up. Right now I'm only getting enough to run the homestead and put a little away for winter. I'm hoping to set up a little co-op in the area. However, farmers are hard to win over and are set in their ways . When they smell my car though, they start to believe me and show a little more interest. When you approach a potential supplier tell them this is an experiment, they are usually more than glad to donate! Tom
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  #13  
Old 06-17-2001, 09:39 PM
fryerpowered
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hey, Bill!

Yep, that would be me It's actually kinda full circle though. I just realized last week when I met Jim on the road coming from his house, one of the sites I visited a loooong time ago was something about using bio-d to power RC airplanes. Which I passed on to my brother-in-law because of his interest in RC planes. I didn't know this was the same guy! It really is such a small world we live in. BTW he has a really sweet looking 240D I told him I would stop by so he could see my MB Wagon but I didn't realize that I would be using it for the paper route Friday and Saturday when my Rabbit started overheating. (that's what I get for running it on pump diesel, Rabbits ARE after all vegitarians)
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2001, 10:57 PM
bobco
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Hi Tom i was getting intersted in bio diesel and didnt have eny thing to burn it in so i bought a 300 sd turbo and now i cant stay ought of it long enough to work on the bio. was wondering if you changed lines and seal to plastic and if so where did you get them? best regards bobco
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  #15  
Old 06-29-2001, 08:59 AM
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Howdy Bobco, To answer your question , NO I didn't change my lines over to some sort of polyelastomer or something. I have found a page or two that does sell that type of tubing that I assume would work, but I change my rubber lines annually anyways as part of my maint. program. I run so many miles that I want to be sure that I ( or my wife) don't get stuck/stranded somewhere. I don't change ALL the rubber though, (like the hose on the filler neck of the tank) I just keep an eye on the big items) I change all the balance lines on the injectors and feed and return lines though. I haven't seen any significant problems as of yet. One thing is for certain, you will find out if there is any weak lines in your fuel system! But,is this a bad thing to learn about it now? Or maybe you would like to find out about it when the snow is knee deep on a tall indian :~) Tom
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