Old Reliable or Sleeker & Faster
 

Last September, I took the diesel plunge by purchasing my first 240D - D1, a loaded '82 automatic. Since then I acquired another diesel - D2, a basic '81 Stick 240D. Been learning what it's like to live with a pair of slow and clattery but simple, reliable (so far) and reasonably economical Mercedes. Been thinking about what to do eventually. Each 240D has it's plusses and minusses. D1 is a great around town car and I installed some decent seats, repaired the rusted out floors, and numerous other issues, but there's more rust lurking under the shiny paint, and despite adjustment to the box, the steering still feels sloppy and the engine racket at 65 mph is quite obtrusive! However, everything works except the AC and cruise. Fuel mileage is in the 20 -25 mpg range.

Despite being more rusty than D1, D2 feels more stable on the highway, and engine noise at speed is tolerable, but I need to repair both floors before the seats drop out. Manual windows, no sunroof, cruise and PWR locks inoperative, but the AC in D2 is still working!. D2's fuel mileage is around 25 - 30 mpg.

So I've been thiking - which one to keep/which one to sell, or sell both and get a nicer 240D, but -

Tonight, while cruising though my neighborhood, I spotted an '87 W124 automatic 300D turbo for sale with 195,XXX showing on the odometer. That six sure was smooth and quiet compared to my 240D, Hot idle oil pressure was staying near the top and the AC was working too! Red flags include the shiny dark metallic blue repaint with a wide driver's side fender gap. Grey TEX interior looked OK except for the driver's seat bottom felt like there was no padding left! The center of the dash also had a long vertical split. Seller is asking $2800. My friend Mike insists I should snap it up. I'm not so sure. I'm going back tommorow for further inspection, test drive and see if there are any more red flags. I've heard these later diesels aren't as bulletproof as the OM616/617 engines. Any other things to look for? A friend had a mid 80s 4-cyl 190D and the front of the timing cover broke off where the belt tensioner was attached. Do these diesel sixes have similar issues? And what kind of fuel mileage should I expect with this car, assuming the engine/tranny is OK?
Thanks in advance.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Do you realize that you are an addict, and you are asking other addicts if it's OK for you to have another fix? :rolleyes4:D

Yes but it's probably cheaper and safer than drugs or booze.
Anyway, I'm trying to make the most rational decision an addict can. But I also did a search and I'm starting to not want that 300D so much. And besides, since I keep D1 here in Alexandria, while D2 resides at Mom's house in Virginia Beach, I now have a 'city' diesel (to keep my Fintail company) and a 'beach' diesel (to keep my 250C company). Buying a third diesel would upset this delicate balance.
Still, I should test drive it before I condemn it.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Monkey on Your Back
 

If you drive it, you'll like it --- then where will you be??

You'll want to buy a good running repaired wreck with hidden rust.

You could always do the magnet trick:

Get a plastic coated magnet (to protect his paint) -- placed on the car in various places, it will tell you where steel is ... and where bondo is.

i had the 91 350sdl. the 603 motors are in my experience just a tremendous amount more work to keep functioning compared to the 616 617. the older ones if you get them right you can literally drive them for years without any significant issues. with the 603 i never was able to even go months it seemed without issues.

it had lots of smooth delicious power though.

tom w

Mark-

Do some searching here about head issues on OM603 engines. There is a possibility of head cracking with the original #14 heads. If you feel lucky go for it.

Myself, I prefer cold hard cast iron. If I had bought the car new, maybe another story, but you don't know the history of this beast.

Rick

Maybe stuck with a car that is much more complicated than my W123s, and a diesel that has a reputation for cracking heads, and the dreaded ACC with an evaporator which, if it fails, takes two days labor to replace (Though the AC seems to be cooling OK for now) ,an automatic tranny that could die without warning, A lift pump in the tank that could also die without warning, etc....

In my defense, I've test-driven some really nice, powerfull, smooth and comfortable cars that I didn't buy. I could afford to gamble with my two W123s because I paid less than !/3 for the pair than this kid is asking for that '87. And I think he's a 'curb-stoner'. The kid actually has three cars for sale. Claims his uncle is in Iraq and needs to sell the Mercedes, while his aunt owns the '96 Camry, and he's selling his own beat-up 97 Audi wagon!
And 10 years ago, a friend's daughter paid $9000 for a '90 300E, that started out much newer & nicer than this car, but it turned into a money pit anyway.
The AC sprung a leak and lost all it's precious R12, the ignition system had multiple problems, the radio died, the radiator broke, the ball-joints failed, and engine oil-leaks killed two alternators!

So, for $2800, I'm much more picky than I was with my 240Ds. Still, a test drive might be fun.

Happy Motoring, Mark

You might think about adjusting your sights to a W126 or W123 OM617 turbodiesel.

Not as smooth or sexy as a W124, but a lot easier on the DIY pocketbook.
Still a major upgrade in creature comfort from a 240D, particularly the W126.
I passed up a really decent W126 OM603 ( for less than $2K)just because of the fears you expressed.

You're hooked. I am sure there'll be another diesel in your future. Just be prepared to spend a bit more and get something reasonably rust-free.

Rick

It depends on what you are looking for in a car. If you want cheap simple reliability don't get the 300D. If you want to drive a quiet, powerful, and luxurious sedan go with the 300D. Since the 300D has more luxury features there are more complicated systems with the car that have the possibility of breaking, but when they are all working right it is fantastic.

A similar comparison can be made to the W123 vs W126 chassis 300SD. Both have the OM617, but the 300SD has more luxury systems to go wrong...

So just sit down and figure out what you want from your cars :D. Personally I want the luxury of the W124. I am willing to spend the time to figure out all the systems and the money to fix them. Will always have my W116 though :cool:.

I really want a quiet, powerfull, luxurious Mercedes that's affordable, reliable and gets great fuel mileage, but that's probably an impossibility. So I'll settle for a decent, cheap & simple 240D.
Before my head got temporarily turned by this '87 300D, one option was to finish fixing up my pair, and sell them both to help pay for a nicer one.
A rust-free, stick-shift, 240D, with a working AC. would suit me just fine, assuming one could be found for less than some ridiculous price.
Last year, a low-mileage example was advertised in the Post as being in "immaculate condition", for $6500!

Really, I'm pretty pleased with my pair of cheap 240Ds, and with diesel costing less than regular-gas, the automatic car is almost perfect for my local driving.
While it's no Mercedes, when I need a powerfull, quiet long-distance cruiser, my '98 Nissan Altima is more than adequate. In nearly two years, it's been very reliable, with cold AC, and everything works except the factory CD player, and occasionally it manages to get around 35 highway mpg.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Mark-

Seriously- go drive an S-class OM617, either W126 or W116 if you can find one. They are very different in feel from a 240D, and almost as reliable.

Rick

It sounds like you really want the '87 300d. Don't let the 617 guys talk you out of it. The '87 300d with the 603 3.0L motor is not high maintainance or troublesome and gets 30+mpg on the highway. You can run extended oil drains, not have to adjust valves, etc... The only problems I can think of is head cracking and maybe lifter tapping at times, other than that, Its a diesel Mercedes like the rest of them except faster, smoother, and quieter than previous models without the crazy electronics of the newer diesels. W124 parts are also comparable to w123 parts in cost and the w124 is actually pretty nice to work on, nice layout, good engineering, ample work space....

Under $3,000 for a fine running 87 300d with under 200,000 miles is a great deal. Go for it! These are great cars that deserve proper care and more time on the road!

Well, I really don't want such a big boat as a W116/W126 S-class. I still prefer the size of the W123/W124, though a decent Euro 126 with small bumpers and a five-speed might tempt me.
Except for the noise and lack of power, (and broken AC on D1) the 240Ds suit me fine, with decent handling, tight turning, and better ride over speed-bumps & potholes than my Nissan.
Now, if a Euro W123 300D with five-speed and manual AC turned up....
Anyway, I'm still going to test-drive that W124 this aftenoon.

Happy Motoring, Mark

When you test drive the 87 300d, if it has good tires, alignment, linkages, and weather permits, see if you can take on the freeway :cool:. You might want to buy it then and there!:) The car is amazingly smooth and efficient at highway speeds. The 87 300d shines brightest on open road. I'm not suggesting breaking speed limits ;)

Oh yeah... watch the temp gauge too, especially if it still has emissions equipment on it.

My mom's 240d N/A auto was great around town (very nimble and managable) but the lack of acceleration was scary. While the 87 may feel like a panzer around town, when the boost kicks in, it becomes more appreciable. I don't know if your 240d's have turbos but be ready for the boost! Turbo starts putting out strong at around 1,700rpm and torque range is between 2-3k, with max torque at 2,400rpm. You shouldn't feel a kick when the boost builds, though, if so, it needs an ALDA adjustment. ENJOY!

Well, if there's another diesel in my future, I don't think it will be this one. Just got back from my test drive. It's quite a ways to the nearest freeway, and the 'owners nephew', who rode wih me didn't seem to want me to drive to far or to fast. Good thing too as it felt pretty squirrely at just 30 mph. Engine ran OK but sluggish off the line, and the nephew was warming it up when I arrived. Could there be a cold-start problem? 1 - 2 upshift was very jerky. Hot-idle oil pressure dropped to about 1.7 after test-drive.
As for the rust - battery tray was rusted apart and the skinny tube crossing under front-end that's part of the lower radiator support was completely rusted out - if it wasn't for the two brackets coming back fom the bumper support, the radiator might have dropped out long ago.
I noticed the radiator was brass/copper - IMHO preferable to plastic/aluminum. Is that normal on these diesels, or might it be a replacement?

Any under-car belly-pans that may have once been, are long gone. Had some minor rust-spots at various places under the driver's side, but drivers floor looked solid and original. However, there was a big gob of filler surrounding the left rear jack-port. Right jack ports were still intact, but worst was the passenger floor with much filler, and sheet-metal patching screwed on and poorly disguised by undercoat, possibly due to leakage from under the rusted-out battery tray. Noticed lots of tiny flaws, blisters & blemishes in the metallic-blue repaint too.
I already have two rusty diesels and don't need three!
I think I'll pass.

Happy Motoring, Mark