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#16
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Thanks, Mark in NC "Spark plugs?...We don't need no stinking spark plugs!" 1985 300SD "Der Silberne Schlitten" 420,000 mi Wish these were diesel: 2003 Ford Club Wagon 130,000 mi |
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Boneyard thread! Almost a decade old!
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http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg 1995 E420 Schwarz 1995 E300 Weiss #1987 300D Sturmmachine #1991 300D Nearly Perfect #1994 E320 Cabriolet #1995 E320 Touring #1985 300D Sedan OBK #42 |
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And the facts are still true today..
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#19
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Most OM352, 5.7L L6 found in 60's, 70's and 80's diesel Unimogs has an ether pilot starter. Can't find the cartridges for them to save your life anymore though. No glow plugs. Now days you just start a fire underneath them
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1986 300 SDL - rolling parts car and test bed. 1987 300 SDL - semi daily driver. 1977 U1000 Unimog 2007 Ram 2500 6.7l |
#20
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Just a very light wiff for a diesel in a pinch....
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC] ..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis. |
#21
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From This Thread
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Current Stable
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#22
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Not sure if this is the same thing, but I remember from my deckhand days, Caterpillar 397/8 engines used a large ether "pill" every time for starting cold.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#23
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- any modern passenger car diesel (1960 onwards) - any diesel with glow plugs - any diesel with compression ratio higher than 17:1 The older and special-use diesels which used starting fluid PROPERLY could use it if administered PROPERLY. There are even some German diesels that have a special add-on to the intake manifold where you put a supply of ether/starting fluid in a pressurized can! These are older agricultural, mining and locomotive, for the most part, including some Caterpillar diesels from the 1960s that were put in bulldozers for wet climates like Alaska. In those diesels, the ether was used to collect the condensation in the engines that had been left in high-humidity places and couldn't start. We're talking Alaska in the winter, here. Or India, Lister one-cylinder models that had to have bearings pressure-oiled before they could be started, after being neglected the entire period of WW 2! In the case of the Alaskan Cats, - a charcoal pan was placed under the vehicle to bring the general temp of the engine block and the oil to 40 degrees - those with pony motors had the pony motors started and charged and kept at warm temp for easy starting later; - the areosol systems were checked, to make sure that ether would spray ON COMMAND The pony motor was started and a mix of ether and kerosene, with a teaspoon of turpentine (an old trick to increase the cetane rating of the fuel!) was sprayed in very short bursts and the vehicle was turned over. 30 seconds of starting attempts told the tale. Usually two tries worked. ----------------------------------------------------- In a modern automotive context, I have started to do some things to make the cars start-friendly: - synthetic oil; - block heater/ cooling systen heater (which also keeps the battery warm) - minimum of 1/3 tank of fuel - occasional addition of diesel fuel conditioner, once every other tank ------------------------------------------------------------------ IF I decide to start an older diesel, the key is to heat the block until it is warm, and to heat the oil until it is warm. Having said that, magnetic block heaters are good, so are dispstick heaters. If you have to use something to start your diesel, buy a spray can of WD-40 and keep it in the house. Put it in hot water in the sink before you go outside to start it. Hot fuel does make a difference. Don't put the can is boiling water! The alternative is to get a larger can of WD40 and a plastic spray bottle, which heats very fast in hot water in the sink Glow it, and then start while someone sprays. It may start and then die until you get more hot fuel up front. Expect two-three tries. My third 240 started this way with 5 dead glow plugs and no block heater plugs, when I first got it. If you use ether, keep a fire extinguisher handy!
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Strelnik Invest in America: Buy a Congressman! 1950 170SD 1951 Citroen 11BN 1953 Citroen 11BNF limo 1953 220a project 1959 180D 1960 190D 1960 Borgward Isabella TS 2dr 1983 240D daily driver 1983 380SL 1990 350SDL daily driver alt 3 x Citroen DS21M, down from 5 3 x Citroen 2CV, down from 6 |
#24
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Hmm
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I once used WD-40 in my 300D - was that risky? It seemed to work.
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Charlie --------------------------- '66 VW 1300 96K miles '97 E300D 239K miles '85 300D 203K miles (sold Sep 2012) |
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Answer
Quote:
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ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Vehicle build. Fleet Durability Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1985 300SD 1983 300D 1984 190D 2003 Volvo V70 2002 Honda Civic https://www.boldegoist.com/ |
#27
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Detroit 8.2 4 cycle diesels often had aerosol ether systems with a push button in the cockpit when installed in motohomes.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
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Some of you are passing around total BS information, others of you are listening to it, and repeating it to others. Are you hoping they ruin their engines? I would hope not.
All diesels are not all the same. Some of you saw a can of Ether used on a diesel, or saw some moron use some on one, and made the jump in intelligence that all diesels must be the same. I gather by reading all this, that some of you have no real clue how a diesel really operates, and no idea what compression does. So when someone with 40 some years experience tells you you shouldnt do something, rather than listen, you go back to what you saw Joe idiot do. All diesels are not all the same. Some can tolerate Ether, because they have MUCH lower compression than a MB, but it is harmful to all of them. It is harmful to all of them. It is harmful to all of them. It is especially harmful to high compression diesels, which include most MB. Rather than blow up your engine, why not pick up the phone and call a IH Case dealer, and ask why they dont offer it anymore, and why they removed the system from all their older machines. Call a Detroit Diesel Dealer, ask for the service dept, and ask what Ether does. Ask what they've seen it do. Some people dont have enough brains to pour the sand out of their shoe. That doesnt mean you have to be dumb enough to follow them. The pic of the old Unimog is fun, but that too, is likely a low compression diesel. Again, we have to know more than if its just a diesel, we have to know its compression. I hear these clowns talking Ether in Detroits. Well, it hurts them. It blows their compression and soon Ether becomes the only way to start them, and then they stop running altogether. Plug your MB in when its cold, buy the winter fuel blend, keep it tuned, make sure it has a good battery and starting system, and run the glows two cycles before you crank. If the engines any good it should start. If it wont, go back in the house or drive your other car. But Ether will shorten it life. Perhaps immediately. |
#29
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Answer
A pre-chamber engine is not the same as a direct injection engine.
Yes, some direct injection engine manufacturers allow starting fluid, this is totally irrelevant. If you did read through the link I posted. On MB pre-chamber engines: * Starting fluid is the last resort = dire emergency use. * If the glow plugs are not disabled, it is a great way to break piston rings. * Using too much starting fluid is often catastrophic for the engine. * Constant use of starting fluid is begging for disaster. * I gave detailed directions of the safe/correct way (where and how) to use a minuscule volume of starting fluid on these engines. I will be happy to discuss this topic further, if you want to call me. .
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ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Vehicle build. Fleet Durability Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1985 300SD 1983 300D 1984 190D 2003 Volvo V70 2002 Honda Civic https://www.boldegoist.com/ Last edited by vstech; 01-19-2013 at 08:50 PM. Reason: to remove Lance messages... |
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Answer
Quote:
Yes, some direct injection engine manufacturers allow starting fluid, this is totally irrelevant. .
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ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Vehicle build. Fleet Durability Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1985 300SD 1983 300D 1984 190D 2003 Volvo V70 2002 Honda Civic https://www.boldegoist.com/ |
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