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#1
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Question about valves 617 300TD
My 85 300 TD has not had a valve adjustment for over 30K miles, and I realize that having this done would be a good idea. Mileage, after a purge and changing all the filters is 24 mpg around town on dino Diesel and 22 on B-100. The engine starts immediately and seems to have a lot more pickup at some times than others.
I noticed a small amount of oil in the air filter holder, about the amount I could wipe out with two paper towels after 10K miles. I am thinking that I should have the valves adjusted and replace the valve seals. I took it to an indy shop a friend told me about and the head honcho tells me that he will adjust the valves for $350, if I provide the gasket, but he says he no longer will replace the valve seals. I tell him that I have heard that this is not a difficult problem and ask him why. He just says "I used to do this", mutters something about the car being old, and says "I do not choose to replace valve seals". If he had a reason, he would not tell me. I tend to think that $350 plus parts is more than a bit high, and there were several things about this guy I noted when he was talking to another customer that failed to inspire any confidence in me for him. As a rule, when I have doubts about the body language and the way someone talks, it has always turned out badly, so I pay attention to such things. This guy was not a Joe Isuzu type, but he was secretive and seemed to be talking down to me, and I hate that. The friend that told me about this shop has never had any work done there, nor has anyone he knows had any work done there. But the deal is that (a) I would like to get the valves adjusted and (b) I think it would be a good idea to have the seals replaced. So my questions are (1) will either of these improve mileage? and (2) what is a fair price for the labor on this job? I am not all that inclined to do this myself, because I am not sure of how to turn the motor to get the valves in position and I don't have the special tools. I'd rather not get in the midst of a job and not be able to finish. Is my diagnosis about the valve seals needing replacement valid? I have records for the past 150K, and this is one thing that is not mentioned. The car has 206K. It's a 1985 300 TD wagon. Thanks a bunch for your help!
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Semibodacious Transmogrifications a Specialty 1990 300D 2.5 Turbo sedan 171K (Rudolf) 1985 300D Turbo TD Wagon 219K (Remuda) "Time flies like and arrow, yet fruit flies like a banana" ---Marx (Groucho) |
#2
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The valve stem seals are usually not a problem with these engines as they dont produce the vacuum that a gasser does. $350 outa my wallet, would be enough inspiration to learn how too adjust the valves. You should be able too do it in less than two hours and check your "chain stretch" too, you'll be able to do it in half the time next time.
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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car" |
#3
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$350 is pretty high. It should take 2-3 hours at the most, it should be in the range of $150-$200 I would think.
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Andrew '04 Jetta TDI Wagon '82 300TD ~ Winnie ~ Sold '77 300D ~ Sold
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#4
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What is your rationale for replacing the valve seals? Oil in the air cleaner is from oil vapor being vented into the intake from the valve cover. Do you have excessive oil consumption? Blue smoke on startup? As far as the valve adjustment goes, $350 is outrageous. This job should be doable in 30-45 min. find a new shop, or better yet learn how to do it yourself (very easy).
bb
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For Sale: 1982 MB 300TD 1995 Chevrolet Suburban 6.5TD Sold: 1980 IH Scout Traveler- Nissan SD33T Diesel |
#5
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Wow! For $350 + parts, you could drive across the state, buy the mechanic dinner and still come out money ahead. A good mechanic should not take more than two hours to do this even if he is slow. Since you have no inclination to DIY, you might do better to inquire about good shops near you.
The valve adjustment is really simple and no specialty tools are needed. (27mm deep socket, 1/2"dr. ratchet, 2-14mm wrenches) Sure the bent wrenches may make it easier but I've done mine four times without them.
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Sam 84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle ) |
#6
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Don't ever go there again - that guy is obviously not interested in working on your car. There should be a number of shops in your area familiar with the W123, so keep looking. But the valve adjustment really isn't all that difficult, and for less than the price of one trip to a shop you can buy all the correct tools to make it even easier.
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Rick Miley 2014 Tesla Model S 2018 Tesla Model 3 2017 Nissan LEAF Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro Chain Elongation References |
#7
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I also wouldn't worry about the seals. It does sound like you should find another shop that inspires more confidence. As for the price, $350 is probably a tad high, maybe $250 would be more reasonable for a 2-3 hour job. If you are concerned about price, call the dealer and get an estimate for a valve adjustment as a baseline. I would expect the independent shops to be less expensive than the dealer.
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#8
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Many thanks!
I already decided that I was not going to let this guy mess with my car. A too high price and a queasy feeling are both deal breakers for me. This was Miami Auto at NE 71st St and NE 4th Court, by the way. I have the 1/2' rachet and the 27mm socket already as well as more than a couple of straight open end14mm wrenches. I suppose I could bend my own wrenches, as I have a propane torch. Perhaps a trip to the u-pik might embolden me. I think I saw a MB with the valve cover off, I just don't recall if it was a Diesel... It is really great to have this forum to go to for info. Has anyone replaced the valve seals? Should I try to do this myself? The car doesn't smoke when I start it much. I suppose that there should not be any oil in the air filter canister, but there was a minimal amount.
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Semibodacious Transmogrifications a Specialty 1990 300D 2.5 Turbo sedan 171K (Rudolf) 1985 300D Turbo TD Wagon 219K (Remuda) "Time flies like and arrow, yet fruit flies like a banana" ---Marx (Groucho) |
#9
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rember, take pics of the valve cover and associated linkages so you dont forget where they go.
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#10
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There is no evidence you need valve stem seals. Quit worrying about them.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#11
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My Indy charged me $150 for a valve adjusment. The guys been doing it for 30 years now, so I would think its a breeze for him.
If you can't do it yourself, I would think in Miami there's got to be some good indies in the area. If Palm Beach is anything like Newport Beach, then all those old Mercs need to be worked on somewhere! I would be curious to know how the valve seals work out for you, if you DIY. I am thinking of doing the same myself, but never been that deep mechanically.
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1979 300TD wagon (non-turbo) 266,000+ |
#12
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Quote:
A small amount of oil in the air filter housing is normal and comes from the crankcase ventilation system. If you had bad valve stem seals, then there would be blue smoke on startup, and possibly blue smoke after a period of idling such as at a stop light. Any oil that gets past the stem seals goes into the cylinders where it is burned. It can't possibly get from there to the air filter. So, like Kerry said, stop worrying about your valve stem seals.
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Rick Miley 2014 Tesla Model S 2018 Tesla Model 3 2017 Nissan LEAF Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro Chain Elongation References |
#13
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Check out DieselGiant's do-it yourself tutorials. Steve
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#14
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You don't HAVE to bend the wrenches to adjust your valves, either. Just do it. It's really not that hard.
Rick
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80 300SD (129k mi) 82 240D stick (193k mi)77 240D auto - stick to be (153k mi) 85 380SL (145k mi) 89 BMW 535i 82 Diesel Rabbit Pickup (374k mi) 91 Jetta IDI Diesel (155k mi) 81 VW Rabbit Convertible Diesel 70 Triumph Spitfire Mk III (63kmi)66 Triumph TR4a IRS (90k mi)67 Ford F-100 (??) |
#15
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I found it very simple to adjust the valves once the injectors were pulled out. if your 27mm socket is a deep, it will be simple to remove the injectors first. this is not needed, as with finesse you can easily find the space to adjust the valves. I ground the face of my cheapo 14mm wrench, down to about 3/16 " and used that wrench as the lower adjuster, and held the upper adjuster with a normal wrench. put the wrench on the upper part, rotate it to the rear, put the wrench on the lower adjuster, and push it to the front of the motor to increase your gap, and toward the rear of the motor to tighten the gap. then snug up the upper adjuster. measure and repeat. oh, the cam lobes do not have to be pointed straight up, just slightly up from level is enough to measure gap. this way you can adjust more at a time between turning the motor.
I was pulling my injectors anyway due to some leaking and such. with the injectors out VERY VERY SIMPLE to get to everything to adjust valves. plus it is easier to turn the motor over with the injectors out, cause no compression pressure is built up. be sure your feeler guage set has .10 mm in it. most do not. .04" is pretty close. .1mm for intake, and .30mm exhaust N/A, and .35MM Turbo this thread has lots of comments and such. W123. Adjusting Valves the easy way. Advise from a Mercedes master to an apprentice
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! Last edited by vstech; 06-14-2007 at 03:20 PM. |
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