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  #1  
Old 06-17-2007, 04:41 PM
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87 300TD Head Replacement Questions

I'm going to look at a 1987 300TD with an overheating problem (only under load) tomorrow. It has a #14 head, so I'm assuming it is cracked. I've really been looking for one of these cars and am fairly mechanically adept (I changed the head on a Volvo 240 a few years back, and had to machine new orifices for the smog pump).

My questions are:
1. Is there any chance that this is just the head gasket, and the head is OK?
2. How much does it cost for a new/rebuilt #22 head, and where can you find one?
3. Can you put the motor/head out of a regular 1987 300D into the TD? I've heard there is some issue with the hydraulic pump for the suspension...
4. The thing has 300K miles on it, so maybe I'd be better off with a whole new engine. Can you still get one from MBZ? Does it cost $15K?

Thanks in advance for any help...

Max Behensky

1982 240D (bulletproof)
1992 300D 2.5 Turbo (bad transmission)

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  #2  
Old 06-17-2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbehensky View Post
I'm going to look at a 1987 300TD with an overheating problem (only under load) tomorrow. It has a #14 head, so I'm assuming it is cracked. I've really been looking for one of these cars and am fairly mechanically adept (I changed the head on a Volvo 240 a few years back, and had to machine new orifices for the smog pump).

My questions are:
1. Is there any chance that this is just the head gasket, and the head is OK?
2. How much does it cost for a new/rebuilt #22 head, and where can you find one?
3. Can you put the motor/head out of a regular 1987 300D into the TD? I've heard there is some issue with the hydraulic pump for the suspension...
4. The thing has 300K miles on it, so maybe I'd be better off with a whole new engine. Can you still get one from MBZ? Does it cost $15K?

Thanks in advance for any help...

Max Behensky

1982 240D (bulletproof)
1992 300D 2.5 Turbo (bad transmission)
1. Yes there is always a chance, but how lucky do you feel?
2. Use the search function for more information. I believe it is $3000 for the head and related items.
3.Regular 1987 300D? I believe they are all turbo charged.
4. I believe you can get one from Metricmotors and Mercedes. Again use the search function.
5. 300TD = Touring diesel which is the wagon like I have. 300D = sedan which AFAIK is always turbo charged in the US.
6. Read this before you buy a 1987 300D/TD http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/124.1x3_buying_tips.txt

Good luck,

Chris
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2007, 11:05 PM
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The gas vulva is a simple job, the 603 diesel is at least twice the time involved and a couple of "special tools".

If it's overheating, it doesn't mean it has a cracked head. Overheating can result in a cracked head, but it is not a symptom of a cracked head. If oil in the coolant, low compression, coolant in the oil, excessive white exhaust (steam) or other indicator of a head or head gasket problem exists, then suspect the head is also damaged. Other problems will cause overheating.

The engine in the '87 300D sedan is the same as the 300TD wagon (W124 and T124). I believe that the T124 hydraulic pump is piggyback on the power steering pump on the diesels same as the gas wagons, so no different head, ... that was the 123 wagon.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mbehensky View Post
1. Is there any chance that this is just the head gasket, and the head is OK?
2. How much does it cost for a new/rebuilt #22 head, and where can you find one?
3. Can you put the motor/head out of a regular 1987 300D into the TD? I've heard there is some issue with the hydraulic pump for the suspension...
4. The thing has 300K miles on it, so maybe I'd be better off with a whole new engine. Can you still get one from MBZ? Does it cost $15K?
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  #4  
Old 06-17-2007, 11:20 PM
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Correct the SLS pump is piggybacked on the power steering pump on the 124. The head is the same for the sedan and the wagon.
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1987 300TD 309, xxx 2.8.2014 10,000 mile OCI


Be careful of the toes you step on today, as they may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. anonymous

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter won’t mind.” Dr. Seuss
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  #5  
Old 06-20-2007, 01:32 PM
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Talking Well, I bought it..

Hi, all, and thanks for the information...

I spotted this 87 300TD on craigslist last weekend and looked at it on Monday. It is white, a California car with a blue MB tex interior in good condition. 320,000 miles, but started right up when cold and no smoke to speak of. I test drove it, and what can I say; I can't resist a 124 series, even when I should know better. It actually has the #17 head (not the #14 as I originally thought, so maybe it is just the head gasket. It definitely seems to be getting some combustion gasses into the cooling system (bubbling in the coolant tank, even when the temperature is only 80).

I limped it home from San Rafael to Santa Cruz along the coast. It got hot when climbing hills (once up to just over 120; I pulled right over and idled it until it cooled back down).

I'm going to take the head off and have a look to see how bad things are. I have the service manual on CDROM (ugh, I wish I had a printed copy). Are there any tips about doing this? How hard is it to determine if the head is cracked? Will it be obvious, or do you need to use dye or something?

Max Behensky

1982 240D
1991 300D 2.5 turbo (bad transmission)
1987 300TD (overheats)

Last edited by mbehensky; 06-20-2007 at 01:34 PM. Reason: misspelling
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  #6  
Old 06-20-2007, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbehensky View Post
I'm going to take the head off and have a look to see how bad things are. I have the service manual on CDROM (ugh, I wish I had a printed copy). Are there any tips about doing this? How hard is it to determine if the head is cracked? Will it be obvious, or do you need to use dye or something?
take it to a reputable machine shop (one who hopefully has experience working on mercedes heads) for a diagnosis. Unless there's a big crack or significant warping you won't be able to see the deformation.
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1982 300TD 210K miles ("The Replacement" aka "The Anvil") - SOLD
1979 300SD 245K miles (never ending project)
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  #7  
Old 06-20-2007, 02:12 PM
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My last car purchase was a '87 300D that failed on the hwy 17 around Scotts Valley, thats a real test for a car with a bad radiator or water pump. The owner left the car with a mechanic who sent the head to be checked and it was indeed cracked, the #14 head of course. with 250K+ miles on it but the interior was real nice, just a little wear on the driver side seat bolster where the seatbelt rubs (common wear point) so I bought it for $450 and had it towed to San Mateo where I worked part time for a garage. I found another #14 head and it checked out ok so now the car is a daily driver (my wife drives the other '87). Oh, yes I put in about $3000 in parts including rebuilding the sunroof and I still need to shotgun the rear suspension
The reason I believe the heads on so many 603 engines fail is because the cooling system is somewhat marginal under extreme conditions such as driving in steep mountains and in hot weather with the AC on. If the radiator has some scale built up internally it starts the downhill spiral toward failure. If the aux fans do not work (as many do, because the thermo switch carries all the current to the fan!) or the thermo clutch leaks out of fluid and doesn't engage and cool the radiator properly (also a known high failure item) then the head cracks from overheating.

Any of the numerous versions of the heads will fail if overheated. Even though the later heads are strengthened in spots thats no solution for a serious overheating on an aluminium head. Gassers also have problems with head failures and some of that can be attributed to not replacing antifreeze on a regular basis, or using the worng type of antifreeze, according to a mechanic at the local MB dealership who said they stack dead heads up like cordwood. Plan on replacing as much of the cooling system as you can if (when) you get the car running again and it should prove to be a reliable, safe vehicle. I love em!
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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!

Last edited by dieseldiehard; 06-20-2007 at 02:24 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-20-2007, 03:28 PM
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I'm in the middle of doing this job right now too. It's not too hard, you've just got to take your time and pay attention to what you're removing. I have it kind of easy since I can always just go look at the engine of my other wagon to compare stuff.

The cracks should be very obvious, no special anything needed.

A replacement head, especially a #22 is big $$. Search for a good deal. It will take some time I imagine.

Good luck.
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1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:33 PM
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Max:

It sounds like you bought an ex-dealer service wagon (white with blue tex). The '87 being the only diesel in that body, most dealers bought it right away, and kept it longer than usual.

There were service-bulletins regarding head gaskets and head cracking on the 602 and 603 engines, so it is likely that your car suffered a failure during its service years, and got a new head and anything else it needed.
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2007, 01:35 AM
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FWIW, a new #22 head is around $1600, nekid. You can probably get one from fastlane or rusty and you can certainly get one from duval.
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2007, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by aersloat View Post
FWIW, a new #22 head is around $1600, nekid. You can probably get one from fastlane or rusty and you can certainly get one from duval.
I don't know what "nekid" means, but if you can find a new #22 head for $1600 you should buy it immediately because that's the deal of a lifetime.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2007, 02:14 AM
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Originally Posted by justinperkins View Post
I don't know what "nekid" means, but if you can find a new #22 head for $1600 you should buy it immediately because that's the deal of a lifetime.
I think it's slang for naked. Just the head. I think that would still be a fantastic deal though.

Chris
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1987 300TD 309, xxx 2.8.2014 10,000 mile OCI


Be careful of the toes you step on today, as they may be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow. anonymous

“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter won’t mind.” Dr. Seuss
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2007, 01:27 PM
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The part numbers are in this thread.

That's no deal - that's just the price. The only caveat is that occasionally trademotion, the backend that Duval uses, is a bit out of sync with MB's current pricing. Most of the time it is right on the money. As gsxr mentions though in the linked thread $1600 is about the going rate. If you buy from Duval you are going to pay shipping while Fastlane or Rusty might pay that out of their markup.

From Duval's description in the attached screen shot the head isn't really "nekid" although Dave has mentioned that you may (or may not) need some machining on the #22 heads.
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87 300TD Head Replacement Questions-picture-5.png  
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2007, 01:44 PM
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re: machining necessary on some #22 heads

read these:
W124 Diesel Aluminum Heads.(87 300D)

W124 Diesel Aluminum Heads.(87 300D)

And remember that if you go to angled injectors you need new injection lines, all 6 ($ix) of them
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'95 E320 Wagon my favorite road car. '99 E300D wolf in sheeps body, '87 300D Sportline suspension, '79 300TD w/ 617.952 engine at 367,750 and counting!
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2007, 04:58 PM
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man I don't know if I just got the deal of a lifetime, paid a normal price or was scammed, but I just picked up a used #22 for $250 out of an 87 TD that I saw running.

I'm stoked

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1987 300TD, 1987 300TD
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