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  #1  
Old 06-21-2007, 05:50 PM
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Location: Northern NY
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What could I have possibly screwed up: delivery valve o-rings

After posting yesterday that delivery valve o-ring replacement on the 190D is an easy no-brainer, simply time consuming, I find my '85 acting like it has a timing or fuel problem after having performed this simple repair.

Did the o-rings on the '84 a few weeks ago with no issues and the current problem with the '85 may be coincidental, but, although it no longer leaks fuel, it runs like sh-t. Was a sweet running little diesel before the o-ring fix Tuesday evening. Now it will stumble and quit when starting, will miss-fire up to 1500 rpm or so, has no power whatsoever. It has a clean tank screen, new filters and I haven't been near the timing.

Only thing I can think I might have done is not aligned one of the little springs up correctly, although I don't see how that would have been possible; stood each one up over the nub and lowered the valve body down over them, couldn't have been any simpler.

Probably no answer but to pull it apart this weekend and find what I did wrong. Would welcome any thoughts or suggestions.

Jim

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2005 C240 4matic wagon (daily driver)
87 190D - 225K (on loan)
85 190D - 312K (on loan)
2011 Subaru Legacy AWD (Wife's)
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2007, 07:52 PM
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I'm assuming the guts of the DV are similar to the 606.

The spring sits on top of a "valve"; did any of those fall over, come out or otherwise have their orientation inside the pump body altered or changed?
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N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2007, 08:03 PM
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No, I didn't touch the seats; in fact, two of the springs stayed upright, never left the seats. I did take the other two springs off, they were leaning precariously and I didn't want them to fall out. I simply cleaned things up, installed the o-rings, and slipped the tower back over the springs.

Jim
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2005 C240 4matic wagon (daily driver)
87 190D - 225K (on loan)
85 190D - 312K (on loan)
2011 Subaru Legacy AWD (Wife's)
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2007, 09:55 PM
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA & 1,150 miles S of Key West
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Good. Moving the valve around can cause irreparable harm.

Assuming you've gotten them torqued properly, and that none of the springs got out of place as you did so, hopefully you have a little debris that has gotten to the inj's or an oring got pinched when you tightened them down causing an air leak.

Air will cause it to be hard to start and to run roughuntil the IP evacuates it and re-primes everything.
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Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2007, 10:11 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
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You need new copper seals for the delivery valve holders.

Knocks, thumps, no power, smooths out above 1500 rpm, no smoke, right?

The copper seals are bad, and the injection lines won't hold pressure between injection cycles, so you have no fuel delivery to one or two cylinders (or poor delivery on all four).

Get new copper seals (a couple bucks), remove the pressure valve holders again one at a time, lift off the old copper seal, put a new on in (clean it off first!), then tighten to 25 ft/lbs, loosen, tighten to 25 ft/lbs again, loosen, then tighten to 30 ft/lbs. This forms the seal to the pressure valve body and holder, sealing it properly. Sometimes you can re-use them, but usually they fail to seal and you get the problem you have.

Make SURE no grit or dirt gets into the injection system, else you will get an injector that sticks open. Same symptoms, except it now smokes a lot.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
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1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2007, 10:26 PM
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Terry, Hope you are right. It does start right up, fires on the first turn, but then stumbles and will stall without some pedal; keep it over 1000 rpm for 30 seconds or so and it will settle into a smooth 650 rpm idle. Interstingly, I noticed today that it seemed to have more power before it warmed up.

I keep thinking that perhaps one of the springs is not seated properly (although I can't imagine how) but your comments on a pinched o-ring or a bit of crap in an injector makes perfect sense. It hits on all four at idle but has suffered a very, very noticeable loss of power. I had planned to get a new set of injectors at some point, perhaps now might be the time.

Jim
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2005 C240 4matic wagon (daily driver)
87 190D - 225K (on loan)
85 190D - 312K (on loan)
2011 Subaru Legacy AWD (Wife's)
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2007, 10:30 PM
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Thank you Peter, will get the new copper seals before I take it apart again!

Jim
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2005 C240 4matic wagon (daily driver)
87 190D - 225K (on loan)
85 190D - 312K (on loan)
2011 Subaru Legacy AWD (Wife's)
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2007, 10:45 PM
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA & 1,150 miles S of Key West
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Peter - I have no expirience with my 617, only the 606.

On the 606 to torque is 30NM, 30NM & 35NM or 35NM one time only pending whom you ask.

Is the 617 torque higher than the 606?

30Nm would be ~22lbs
35NM would be ~26lbs

Def get new crush washers if you didnt do that...and as Peter said....start clean, stay clean.
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Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
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  #9  
Old 06-21-2007, 10:53 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
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Your numbers are probably more correct than mine.

The 617 has a similar IP with an aluminum body, and the torque sequence and value are the same.

You really must tighten and loosen them as stated, or they leak. Per the factory manual, and i have no reason to question that. Having gotten a 603 with leaking seals, I know.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2007, 12:43 AM
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA & 1,150 miles S of Key West
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I did a hybrid method on my 606 when i did its seals.

Were I doing again, I would probably do the 30, 30, 35NM (what I understand to be the older) method.

Prior to starting I sparyed eveything CLEAN and then rinsed EVERYTHING in two separate rinse cups of clean diesel before reassembly too.

If I did it again I'd crank (manually pump on the 617) before reconnecting the metal fuel lines to help get rid of any debris left in the DV's to help keep it form getting to the inj's.

I ahd some light knock afterwards and did two DP's of two cans each. Knock went away slowly after 1000 miles. For me that only took 10 days time as I drive a lot.

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Terry Allison
N. Calif. & Boca Chica, Panama

09' E320 Bluetec 77k (USA)
09' Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel 48k (S.A.)
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