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  #16  
Old 06-28-2007, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas.Sherida View Post
John,

FWIW: My 84 euro wagon ran hot (~100 C), had green coolant and was heavily scaled. I did the citric acid flush and replaced the thermostat (Behr, 80 C) and refilled with Zerex G-05. It still runs hot.

As I have started to drive the car more the temps are running less hot, despite the increasingly hot weather. Last night it was running at just over 90 C.

I still think there are bubbles in the system, but I'll be buying a new temp sender soon.
Hmm.
I have seen posts here that claim the line above the 80C mark is 90C, but logic tells me it should be 100C, and my thermometer shows the head temp to be 212°F when the dash gauge is reading at the line above 80, so that tells me it is 100 for sure.
are you thinking the gauge mark is 90, or 100? where is your car temp sitting now? thanks.

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Hmm.
I have seen posts here that claim the line above the 80C mark is 90C, but logic tells me it should be 100C, and my thermometer shows the head temp to be 212°F when the dash gauge is reading at the line above 80, so that tells me it is 100 for sure.
are you thinking the gauge mark is 90, or 100? where is your car temp sitting now? thanks.

You can easily calibrate your temp gauge/ sender with an ohmeter, thermometer, pot of water on a stove
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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:28 AM
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Thumbs up Me to...

I also read that line as 100*C.....

Also: I don't feel like researching it at the moment, but I have read in the MB Service Manual that 120*C is no problem......

SB
__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #19  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:32 AM
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Exclamation Another thing to consider.....

If you suspect that your coolant is 100*C or higher.....bear in mind that your Auxiliary Fan should come on when the coolant exiting the head reaches 100*C.....so if your Aux Fan is running without the AC being on, then you definitely do have a hot running condition.....

SB
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Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorebilly View Post
I also read that line as 100*C.....

Also: I don't feel like researching it at the moment, but I have read in the MB Service Manual that 120*C is no problem......

SB

I don't know why people here are concerned about 90 C being too hot. Diesels are heat machines and they run better and are more efficient when hot, up to a point. As long as your coolant is not boiling over and your head gasket is holding and he head is not warping, the hotter the better.
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85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
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  #21  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Hmm.
I have seen posts here that claim the line above the 80C mark is 90C, but logic tells me it should be 100C, and my thermometer shows the head temp to be 212°F when the dash gauge is reading at the line above 80, so that tells me it is 100 for sure.
are you thinking the gauge mark is 90, or 100? where is your car temp sitting now? thanks.
And what logic is that? What the logic behind the fuel gauge?
__________________
85 300D turbo pristine w 157k when purchased 161K now
83 300 D turbo 297K runs great. SOLD!
83 240D 4 spd manual- parted out then junked
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:41 AM
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the hotter the better? really? mine sits rock solid at 100°C and with a/c on, it will climb up close to 120°C so I wanted to get it to stay around 80°C so it could handle the higher temps of the a/c... as many miles as I have on my driver, I don't want the thing to overheat.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #23  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:44 AM
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the logic I use to determine what the unmarked lines are, is what my chemistry teacher tought me. graduations between numbered graduations are usually equidistant. in other words, the first mark is 40, then 60, then 80, then 100, then 120... I know electrical gauges are sometimes random, but this should be the case due to the way it's marked.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #24  
Old 06-28-2007, 11:58 AM
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Cool I have decided.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by funola View Post
And what logic is that? What the logic behind the fuel gauge?
I have decided that the reasoning behind the fuel gage is......it discounts the reserve......so when you get to E, you still have your reserve.....According to the MB publication Technical Data Passenger Cars......a W123.13x (USA)....the total tank capacity is 80 liters, with a reserve capacity of 11.5 liters......so by my way of thinking F= 80 liters in tank......but gage counting it as 68.5 liters.....1/2 thus is 34.25 liters.....and E is 0.0 liters.....and you still have your 11.5 liters to get some more fuel......

SB
__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #25  
Old 06-28-2007, 12:56 PM
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The way I thought it worked, on my 210, is that when the low fuel light came on, THAT was the reserve.

Guess I'll have to rethink that one...Shorebilly, your explanation makes sense.
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  #26  
Old 06-28-2007, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
Hmm.
I have seen posts here that claim the line above the 80C mark is 90C, but logic tells me it should be 100C, and my thermometer shows the head temp to be 212°F when the dash gauge is reading at the line above 80, so that tells me it is 100 for sure.
are you thinking the gauge mark is 90, or 100? where is your car temp sitting now? thanks.
I read as 100 C. and I'm estimating that the car runs between 90 and ~97.

My 85 300TD has always run around 90 (halfway between the 80C and unlabeled line), and it never bothered me.

The new 84 300TD ran at just over the 100C line when I got it and now stays under the line (after the citric acid flush).

It was always my understanding that while the engine can tolerate higher temps, it was designed to run optimally around 82-84 C.

The thing that bugs me is that with the thermostat out, it was all I could do to get the car to run near 80C (driving around in S). I know that it should take much longer to warm up with the t-stat out, but since the cooling system had no trouble keeping the engine well cooled until I put the thermostat back in, doesn't that point to a faulty t-stat?

The other thing that bugs me is that the temps fluctuate far more on the 84 than they ever did on the 85.

All of this assumes that the temp sender is giving me correct info or course.

SB,

My car only has one temp sensor on the t-stat housing (for the KLIMA). I don't know that coolant temps will trigger the aux fan.
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  #27  
Old 06-28-2007, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorebilly View Post
I have decided that the reasoning behind the fuel gage is......it discounts the reserve......so when you get to E, you still have your reserve.....According to the MB publication Technical Data Passenger Cars......a W123.13x (USA)....the total tank capacity is 80 liters, with a reserve capacity of 11.5 liters......so by my way of thinking F= 80 liters in tank......but gage counting it as 68.5 liters.....1/2 thus is 34.25 liters.....and E is 0.0 liters.....and you still have your 11.5 liters to get some more fuel......

SB
I'm not sure I follow you here, but every car I have ever owner (that had a fuel gauge) the mid-point line (often marked as 1/2) was more like 1/4 tank.

Based on watching the trip odometer vs the fuel gauge.

I can't remember if it was a Cadillac or a VW, but I recall having once owned a car that acknolwedged this discrepancy by having fuel gauge markings that looked more like a logarithmic scale than a linear scale.
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  #28  
Old 06-28-2007, 01:57 PM
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we both agree. I would like the temp to be close to 80°C with the air off. I barely could get the temp above the 60°C mark with the stat out. I KNOW the radiator is crystal clear now. just gotta get the water pump checked, and see if I can figure out why it won't stay below 100°c
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #29  
Old 06-28-2007, 02:58 PM
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I've never used them, but these guys have citric acid for $18 for 5 pounds. They also sell a 1 pound jar for $4.50.

http://www.tscc.tv/Products/chemicals.htm

-Jim
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  #30  
Old 06-28-2007, 05:30 PM
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Question VS and Sherida...did you bother to read this.....!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorebilly View Post
Your 80*C thermostat is controlling the coolant temperature entering the water pump for 80*C.....after the coolant circulates thru the engine and reaches the cylinder head....where the engine temperature sensor is located....a temperature of 90*C is good, it shows that you have increased the coolant 10*C as it flowed thru the entire engine.....

What a lot of folks don't seem to understand.....the thermostat on a Mercedes-Benz is not restricting coolant flow exiting the head to achieve it's desired temperature.....it is a mixing valve that takes hot coolant exiting the head and mixes it with the cooler coolant exiting the radiator to achieve a constant coolant temperature as it enters the engine.....there is a diagram of this in the MB Service Manual.....

This is the European viewpoint on cooling machinery.....which is pretty much the opposite of the way we think of it here in the USA....

SB
I quote myself here because you must run the thermostat in order to get any regulating effect at all......see page 20-005 of the MB W123 Engine Service Manual.....there is a nice diagram there that will help you see what is IN FACT going on......if you folks have other models there will be a similar diagram in your particular MB Engine Service manual......

Bottom line you will never ever see the temperature that the thermostat is rated at on your temperature gage...excepting as it heats up or cools off.....and if you are running without a thermostat you won't ever get close to 80*C unless it's very hot outdoors....

SB

__________________

Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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