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  #1  
Old 06-26-2007, 06:48 PM
vstech's Avatar
DD MOD, HVAC,MCP,Mac,GMAC
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mount Holly, NC
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cleaning the engine while performing citric flush... Tach started working!

it's never worked since I got the car. my 82 SD, put the gauge cluster from the parts car 83 SD due to the 120mph speedo. (I hated the 85mph...) the tach did work in that car. anyway, the tach did not work in the 82, but since it was not my goal, I didn't worry about it much. well while I was chasing a warm running problem, I flushed and flushed to clear the motor, and I used the hose to cool down the motor between runs. anyway when I filled back up with the citric solution, my tach started working! it's a little flakey, at low speeds, so there may still be issues with the thing, but it's a tach! I have a tach!
I just love it when the car fixes itself, and also when fixing one thing makes other things work too!
oh, and the cruise control works now too.....

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #2  
Old 06-26-2007, 08:26 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Sunnyvale, Texas (DFW)
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Where did you get your citric acid?
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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2007, 01:30 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fresno, CA
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I recently did the citric acid flush and I would recommend it over any prestone or the likes. I looked hard for the stuff, the dealer said he could order it but I decided to look around. I finally found it at a health food store. 1 pound of the small crystals for 7 bucks.
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1999 E300 TD 190,000
1996 Passat TDI 225,000-sold
1996 E300 120,000-sold
1998 Jetta TDI 186,000 -sold
1983 Chev Suburban C20 6.2-sold
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2007, 05:25 AM
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Arrow I've been looking, too.....

I've been looking for Citric Acid also.....the Health Food Store was a great idea, I had not thought to look/ask there......

SB
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Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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  #5  
Old 06-27-2007, 07:24 AM
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well since you are supposed to use 2.2 lbs for each flush, I decided getting it in 1 lb boxes would not do...(*I have 8 of these 617's, and SEVERAL other cars...) ebay sellers have 3, 5, 7, 17, 50, etc. Lb. boxes for sale, real reasonable. I got 17.5 for 37.97 delivered. just search for citric acid. it's also called bath bomb and fizzy powder
oh, and the car STILL will not stay under 100C... this is my second citric flush (man that cleans out everything) and I put in a german Tstat. do they make 160F / 70C tstats?
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2007, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
well since you are supposed to use 2.2 lbs for each flush, I decided getting it in 1 lb boxes would not do...(*I have 8 of these 617's, and SEVERAL other cars...) ebay sellers have 3, 5, 7, 17, 50, etc. Lb. boxes for sale, real reasonable. I got 17.5 for 37.97 delivered. just search for citric acid. it's also called bath bomb and fizzy powder
oh, and the car STILL will not stay under 100C... this is my second citric flush (man that cleans out everything) and I put in a german Tstat. do they make 160F / 70C tstats?

Have you tried a different temp gauge and sender? just a thought.
Thanks for the info above. Hmmmm, 2.2lbs.......
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Jimmy L.
'05 Acura TL 6MT
2001 ML430 My Spare

Gone:
'95 E300 188K "Batmobile" Texas Unfriendly Black
'85 300TD 235K "The Wagon" Texas Friendly White
'80 240D 154K "China" Scar engine installed
'81 300TD 240K "Smash"
'80 240D 230K "The Squash"
'81 240D 293K"Scar" Rear ended harder than Elton John
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:06 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 472
John,

FWIW: My 84 euro wagon ran hot (~100 C), had green coolant and was heavily scaled. I did the citric acid flush and replaced the thermostat (Behr, 80 C) and refilled with Zerex G-05. It still runs hot.

As I have started to drive the car more the temps are running less hot, despite the increasingly hot weather. Last night it was running at just over 90 C.

I still think there are bubbles in the system, but I'll be buying a new temp sender soon.
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:40 AM
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How did you cool the motor with the hose? My guess is your tach fix is temporary.

Have you taken any measurements at the tach amp? Pin #'s should be labeled on the socket. 2 is gnd, 6 is + 12V, 7&9 is mag pickup and should be around 80 ohms power off. 3 is output to tach. Wrap a short length of solid thin gauge wires around pins 3 and 2 of the tach amp, bring it out (tape up to make sure no shorts) and measure with a DVM on the AC scale. At 750 rpm idle, you should get between 0.2 to 0.4volts. This is the pulse output to the tach from the tach amp. If you get no voltage at all on pin 3, then possibly the mag pickup is bad, or the tach amp is bad, or wiring is bad, or the mag pickup gap is way off, or the single tooth (approx 1/8 dia 1/2 long) on the HB is missing..

Last edited by funola; 06-27-2007 at 09:46 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2007, 12:07 PM
vstech's Avatar
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I don't know, I filled the system really well, no chance there are bubbles in there. my next step is to pull the water pump, and change it, I will also replace the aluminum fan with a plastic one from an 85 D I have. that will get more air flow through there, but I will have to replace the alternator belts to do it... oh well.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #10  
Old 06-27-2007, 12:44 PM
vstech's Avatar
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oh, and I am shooting the head with my IR non contact thermometer, it is sitting right at 100C... so the temp sender is working right.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #11  
Old 06-27-2007, 01:04 PM
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Try this T-stat

I have ordered a 74 degree t-stat from Autoparts Warehouse.com.

It is part number 116 200 00 15/G4001-15459 for a 450 SE.

I have heard that it will fit in the 617 engine. I am still waiting for it and willlet you know if it fits and makes a difference.
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2007, 01:08 PM
vstech's Avatar
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COOL! thanks man, I will wait for your experience to blossom.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:22 PM
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Location: Fresno, CA
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The only other place I could find the citric acid was at a nusery, but they sold it in a 50lb bag for 65 bucks. I did not want to get into the citric acid selling business so I passed.
the guy at the nusery told me it is getting hard to find because I guess drug users use it for something, who knows.

I have been wondering about a cooler Tstat for my 96 also I would be curious to see it that one works for you. Mine is the 85C and is fully open at 94C
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1999 E300 TD 190,000
1996 Passat TDI 225,000-sold
1996 E300 120,000-sold
1998 Jetta TDI 186,000 -sold
1983 Chev Suburban C20 6.2-sold
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:54 PM
vstech's Avatar
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just choose your size... shipping is what gets you at ebay, some sellers are offering 2Lb. 12.00 free shipping... I have plenty of cars, so 17.5Lbs. was perfect for me. 22ish plus 10ish shipping.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=citric+acid&category0=
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2007, 08:30 AM
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Marine Engineer (retired)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,268
Thumbs up 90*C is a good operating temperature !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas.Sherida View Post
John,

FWIW: refilled with Zerex G-05. It still runs hot.

As I have started to drive the car more the temps are running less hot, despite the increasingly hot weather. Last night it was running at just over 90 C.

I still think there are bubbles in the system, but I'll be buying a new temp sender soon.
Your 80*C thermostat is controlling the coolant temperature entering the water pump for 80*C.....after the coolant circulates thru the engine and reaches the cylinder head....where the engine temperature sensor is located....a temperature of 90*C is good, it shows that you have increased the coolant 10*C as it flowed thru the entire engine.....

What a lot of folks don't seem to understand.....the thermostat on a Mercedes-Benz is not restricting coolant flow exiting the head to achieve it's desired temperature.....it is a mixing valve that takes hot coolant exiting the head and mixes it with the cooler coolant exiting the radiator to achieve a constant coolant temperature as it enters the engine.....there is a diagram of this in the MB Service Manual.....

This is the European viewpoint on cooling machinery.....which is pretty much the opposite of the way we think of it here in the USA....

SB

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Diesels:
'85 300D, "Max, Blue Benz", 155K, 27.0 MPG
'84 190D 2.2, "Eva, Brown Benz", 142K, 40.2 MPG
'77 240D (parts car)
'67 Eicher ES 202 Tractor "Otto" (2cyl, Air Cooled, 30HP)
Gassers:
'94 Ford F-150, "Henry", 170K (300 Six) 17.5 MPG
'85 190E 2.3, 148K....Parts Car
'58 Dodge W300M Powerwagon (Flat Fenders) Less than 10 MPG
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