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  #1  
Old 06-27-2007, 06:46 PM
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85 300TD load carrying abilities

Took the TD on a raft trip last week. 5 people, and enough gear for 6 days and an 18' raft and frame. Pulled a trailer. Total weight of everything (including the trailer) was somewhere between 1800-2100lbs with about 1100-1200 lbs in or on the car and the rest in the trailer. Went from Denver to Bluff, UT and back. Despite the fact that this load seems to be within the limits of the TD, it seemed to me that it was overloaded. Coming home over Vail Pass and the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, it was laboring. Climbing those passes it was 30mph or so, in second gear around 3k rpm's. I'd done the same route in March in cooler weather for a canoe trip with about 300-400 less lbs. It ran most of the pass in 3rd gear with the reduced load.
I had to work the transmission manually quite a bit to avoid bogging down. Slight grades slowed me down and I was shifting into 3rd gear around 52mph.

Anyone else have any numbers and experience to compare this too?

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2007, 06:55 PM
vstech's Avatar
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Hmm, I would think a N/A car would handle those speeds... it is quite a lot of weight though. sorry I can't be of more help. I have seriously loaded down my TD, (N/A) most likely over 1200 Lbs in the car, and had no major difficulties climbing steep hills, but nothing like the rockies have to offer. what is the 0-60 time unloaded on your car? perhaps you have a fuel or transmission issue?
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2007, 07:03 PM
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Haven't checked the 0-60 times unloaded. I can do that once I'm fully unloaded. It doesn't have any trouble climbing the passes unloaded. In fact, in the past even with 2 people and 2 canoes on top, I thought it flew up there. I seemed to have crossed some kind of divide with this load.
Filters are pretty new. I know what it feels like to have plugged filters and I don't think that was going on. My 77 NA wouldn't have made it 10 miles out of Denver with that load.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #4  
Old 06-27-2007, 07:03 PM
Abandon the Roads!
 
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Aren't you supposed to manually shift or use one of the special settings (below D) when you have a trailer?
I dunno, I remember reading something about it in the manual.
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  #5  
Old 06-27-2007, 07:04 PM
speedy82's Avatar
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Talking

4 big dogs (two Siberians & 2 Rott mixes) & 1 cat.
But on a more serious note: I used my TD to move. I packed him solid and had no problems whatsoever.
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  #6  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:24 PM
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Same place, Similar Symptoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry edwards View Post
...Coming home over Vail Pass and the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, it was laboring. Climbing those passes it was 30mph or so, in second gear around 3k rpm's. I'd done the same route in March in cooler weather for a canoe trip with about 300-400 less lbs. It ran most of the pass in 3rd gear with the reduced load.
I had to work the transmission manually quite a bit to avoid bogging down. Slight grades slowed me down and I was shifting into 3rd gear around 52mph.
Kerry,

Several years ago I was driving my '85 wagon, medium load (@1000lbs), East from California to Chicago, via Red Rocks ampitheatre. I started having the same symptoms you speak of as i got into Utah and the hills. By the time I got to Glenwood Springs I could barely get up any incline. This is how/why I found that mechanic in GS. It turned out to be the line that runs off the banjo bolt on the back of the turbo needed cleaning and also my altitude adjustment needed an attitude adjustment (sorry couldn't resist that one).

After cleaning that line out I flew over the vail pass. it was incredible the difference it made. I don't think I ever got the altitude adjust to work properly and still don't really understand about it's function too well.

Also I have heard that towing behind the wagons is really hard on the transmission. That is why I have hesitated to put a hitch on mine, although now that i have a back up (and a parts car) i might try it once i get my '85 back in action.

peace,
woody
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:40 PM
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Well, Woody, you called it. Ignore all my numbers. The banjo line was disconnected! This means I was both losing boost out the bolt and not getting any fuel enrichment from the ALDA (I think).
So, now the question is, how much difference would that make in power? 10% 20%???
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovinola View Post
Also I have heard that towing behind the wagons is really hard on the transmission. That is why I have hesitated to put a hitch on mine, although now that i have a back up (and a parts car) i might try it once i get my '85 back in action.

peace,
woody
I think Mercedes says it's ok to tow at least 2500lbs with a TD. Lots of Europeans pull travel trailers with them.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:58 PM
vstech's Avatar
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glad you found the issue! I just knew the turbo wagon would have no issues pulling up a grade like that. and I think you under estimate your 77 N/A... I believe it would perform similar to what you accomplished with your load and the banjo bolt disconnected.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #10  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry edwards View Post
Total weight of everything (including the trailer) was somewhere between 1800-2100lbs with about 1100-1200 lbs in or on the car and the rest in the trailer. Went from Denver to Bluff, UT and back. Despite the fact that this load seems to be within the limits of the TD, it seemed to me that it was overloaded. Coming home over Vail Pass and the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, it was laboring. Climbing those passes it was 30mph or so, in second gear around 3k rpm's.
There is this deal that is necessary when you have hills and heavier loads.

It's called horsepower.

If you want to climb a specific grade at 30 mph, you need a certain horsepower. Let's say it's 15 hp. If you want to climb that same grade at 60 mph, you need close to 90 hp.

Since we are severely limited in horsepower, an unloaded vehicle with a 617 might climb a 6% grade at 63 mph. Load the vehicle up with 1200 lb. and it has no chance to hold 63 mph on the same grade. With only 85 hp at the rear wheels, the vehicle simply doesn't have the horsepower to lift that load at highway speeds.

Naturally, you get maximum horsepower at 4500 rpm, so, you might have been able to push it a bit faster in second gear, if you so chose............unless the load was so great that 30 mph climbing speed was the absolute limit. If so, then you'd need a gear between 1st and 2nd to get the revs up to 4400 for the best climb speed. I realize that you would prefer not to run the engine that fast.

For reference, I've had the SDL on a long 6% upgrade with minimal load. It's got 150 hp and it can barely hold 70 mph on such a climb.
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  #11  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:49 PM
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30mph was the limit. Could get no more except on a few flatter sections where I was able to get about 3400rpm's for a few hundred yards.
I'm disappointed that the boost line was disconnected because now I don't know how it would perform that heavily loaded and I don't feel like loading it up again and giving it a try.
I was misled by the fact that I was heavily loaded. I attributed the slow performance to the load, whereas if I'd have been unloaded I'd have checked for problems.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerry edwards View Post
Well, Woody, you called it. Ignore all my numbers. The banjo line was disconnected! This means I was both losing boost out the bolt and not getting any fuel enrichment from the ALDA (I think).
So, now the question is, how much difference would that make in power? 10% 20%???
The n/a 617 has about 80 hp. The turbo 617 has 123 hp. It's a significant loss. While you still wouldn't be able to climb at 60 mph, you'd be doing much better than 30 mph.
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2007, 10:42 PM
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It must have had somewhere between 80 and 123hp. The turbo was still spinning even though some boost was being lost and the ALDA wasn't functioning. At least the turbo was overcoming some of the loss of power from altitude.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2007, 11:22 PM
Craig
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Probably closer to 80HP, the boost doesn't do very much without the corresponding fuel.
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2007, 11:31 PM
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It would be lower than 80hp I bet. NA fueling with a clogged muffler.

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