Seeking northern truck as reliable as W123 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rstl99 · #1 07-15-2007, 07:09 PM

Pondering on getting an older 4x4 truck vehicle for road trips in the Far North.
Would like the solid feel and reliability of a W123, at about the price of a good used W123. Would like it to be diesel engined. Roomy for all kinds of gear and sleeping inside. Fixable so I don't get stranded in remote places. Simple, solid, rugged engineering.

I've pondered:
- G-wagens (too expensive to buy)
- Land Cruiser wagons 60 or 80 series (great engines, tend to rust, can cost a lot to buy)
- Dodge truck with Cummins (great engine, truck is so-so but can be repaired at any garage)
- GMC Suburban with diesel (unsure about reliability of their engines, repairable anywhere)
- Land Rover 110 diesel (again, expensive to buy, drivetrain so-so)

Ideas, suggestions?

#2 07-15-2007, 07:14 PM

Good question, let me know what you find because I would love to replace my POS jeep (with something that is less of a POS) for use as a winter beater. Personally, I would like to get my hands on a 80s vintage diesel G-wagon (NA 617 engine) but I've never seen a decent one for less than about $20K.

RobTheMod · #3 07-15-2007, 08:00 PM

I recommend a 12V Cummins Dodge with manual transmission. Two co-workers own them, bulletproof trucks. I don't mean to say that nothing ever breaks, but nothing that would leave you stuck.

Bio300TDTdriver · #4 07-15-2007, 08:03 PM

I agree with Rob the Mod. If you want to hear about mine PM me. You are going to have to get a really early one for it to cost the same as a 123.

Chris

#5 07-15-2007, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobTheMod

I recommend a 12V Cummins Dodge with manual transmission.

Ditto. That would be my truck of choice.

DZL_Damon · #6 07-15-2007, 08:20 PM

Agreed on the old 12v Cummins!! The old 89-91 (I think) were pretty low on the power side. They used a rotary pump that you couldn't do much to, and it was only 165hp I think. In either 92 or 94, they put in the durable Bosch p7100 inline injection pump very similair to the benz. It was very tunable if you wanted, and lasted much more than the rotaries. The basic longevity of a rotary is 100,000-150,000 miles... more if additive for lubricity is constantly used (uses the diesel to lubricate many important parts in them).

I have a 93 F-250 with the N/A (but turbo was an option that year, and you can add it to ANY year) 7.3L IDI International. It's 185hp and about 375ft-lb of torque. Very simple and easy to work on for it's all mechanical injection like our cars. I'm a Ford guy, but will admit that some stuff is shotty, but most vehicles have their quirks. The engine is very strong. It does have a rotary pump, but don't be scared of a rotary. They just don't last 400,000 or more like the inlines do. They started out with th 6.9L 165hp International in 1983, and that upgraded to the 7.3L in mid 87 I believe. The first year or two had trouble with the scraper rings and because of that conusmed more oil than normal. In 94.5 they introduced the Powerstroke 7.3L International which is a direct injection engine, and yeilds way more power. It is quite a bit more complicated, a little harder to work on, and a little more expensive to repair, but still a great engine. In the 90's, the 7.3L was called the King (I think that Cummins was pretty good too though). Anyway, I got 20mpg with 33" tires, and my truck was an 8ft bed x-cab with four wheel drive. Very rugged truck (Although mine was rusty). After my injectors started to go, I started smokin and went down to 15mpg or so. The truck very easily kept highway speeds. Only time you'd slow down is going up hill pulling a load, but I never towed untill my injectors started going south so.... I got it up to 105mph when I first got it, and it would comfortably do 75-80 on the interstate. Note that I had the 3.55 rear end ( the 4.10 is good for pulling, but not the highway) and the 5speed manual with over drive.

Then the Chevy.... well.... I just wouldn't get one inless it was a great deal. The 6.2L were better than the disaster of a diesel; the 5.7 and 4.3 GMs. They still had a lot of problems, and pretty low power. They started in trucks in 1982 and I think they were about 130hp. They had to be geared low and didn't like the interstate speeds much. My buddy had 2 and 65 was all it was really good for without pushing it a lot. They were notorious for chewing up exhuast valves amongst many more problems. The 6.5 was a bit better, and there was a turbo option, but even when they are "healthy" they sound extremely sick. I just don't like the noise of a small GM diesel under load.

Another important factor is transmissions. Early diesels chewed up automatic trannies pretty regularly especially if they towed in their life any. The manual transmission is a safer bet as far as really durable goes. They can handle the torque, so all you'll ever expect is regular wear and tear items like clutch or throw out bearing once in awhile.

The Land Rover sounds awesome, but I know nothing on them. The G-Wagon... well YA! But the price is a little much for me aswell.

Hope this helps

-Luke

Stevo · #7 07-15-2007, 08:28 PM

I agree about the 12 valve Dodge/Cummins truck. I would rather have the Cummins in a Ford truck, but the Dodge is OK. I get about 23 mpg on the highway with mine. They kept jacking up the HP as the years passed but the 160 HP engine is enough for my needs.

DZL_Damon · #8 07-15-2007, 08:31 PM

Many 12v Cummins swaps have been done. Diesel power mag has one in a ford like mine putting out almost 1200hp!!!!!!! Of a mechanical pump and sequential turbos!!!!! Lots of potential in those engines.

lietuviai · #9 07-15-2007, 08:43 PM

An old gasser GM truck (pre-80 FI models) is the way to go. Cheap, cheap to keep and built like a tank. Extremely reliable too. No cold weather starting issues.

DZL_Damon · #10 07-15-2007, 09:17 PM

I started my truck at -20f a couple times without block heater. 215,000 miles, about 500lb of compression in each cyl, good German Beru/Motorcraft GPs (Bosch is the ONLY other option, never autolite or champion) and cycled the plugs twice. The ol girl chugged to life!

lietuviai · #11 07-15-2007, 09:32 PM

No cycling of anything needed on a gasser in freezing temps. Just push down on the gas pedal to set the choke, a few cranks and VROOOM my 400 ci V8 comes to life!

dunl · #12 07-16-2007, 12:14 AM

Ditto on the Cummins.

So when are you planning to come through Canada?

ltrain300D · #13 07-16-2007, 12:56 AM

Ditto again! My dad had a 1990 W250 5 speed with the 12V - only 160 HP but 400 lb-ft. It was a beast of a truck - never left him stranded. The rotary pump did quit on him but he got that replaced and the truck drove like it was new again. Also had the transmission replaced once. Not sure how many miles it had on it - the odometer stopped working at 129900... I am pretty sure when he sold it last year it had upwards of 250,000 miles on it. Drove it across the country quite a few times - also survived a few north dakota and colorado winters. Started right up every morning.

Bio300TDTdriver · #14 07-16-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DZL_Damon

I started my truck at -20f a couple times without block heater. 215,000 miles, about 500lb of compression in each cyl, good German Beru/Motorcraft GPs (Bosch is the ONLY other option, never autolite or champion) and cycled the plugs twice. The ol girl chugged to life!

Was it a Dodge?

rstl99 · #15 07-16-2007, 08:47 AM

Hi everyone, and thanks for your recommendations.
Sounds like the 12v Cummins Dodge truck is the vehicle of choice for my need (in a manual, 4x4, 3/4 ton configuration obviously). What I like about that is that I can put a small truck camper on it and travel fairly self-sufficiently.

I understand that the Dodge part of the truck has some issues, requiring frequent front-end work due to heavyness of the Cummins, for ex., but all that can be refurbished before heading out, and can be fixed pretty well anywhere if need be.

More "exotic" solutions like G-wagen, Land-Cruiser, Land-Rover definitely have their appeal to me (the self-enclosed station-wagon body for one), but one needs to have one in tip top shape to head up to the Far North, and/or bring lots of spare parts and be ready to fix it if/when it breaks. They are also obviously much pricier than an older Dodge/Cummins. However, 80's Land Cruiser diesel wagons CAN be found for $5-7K, but rust is the killer issue on them.

Speaking of rust, I live in the North-East, so I've seen several older Dodge trucks that were quite rusted out. So that is part of the challenge: find a good older one with the 12v Cummins, manual trans, 4x4 that isn't afflicted with terminal rust. Time is on my side, however, I don't envision heading out on my trips for another couple of years.

I liked the idea of the old GM gasser. Owned a 79 GMC half-ton with 305 engine way back when, and loved that truck (sold it because we had 2 kids and it was impractical). However, I figure with the Cummins I can get better mileage on the highway, and with the price of fuel these days, and extra 5-10 mpg can make a big difference on a cross-continent trip.

Cheers, and thanks again for your thoughts!

p.s. I saw a local diesel G-wagen for sale a couple of months ago, only about $12-13K US. But it had over 450,000 kms on what looked like a tired 617, and a 4 speed tranny that made the truck a pain to drive at highway speeds. The owner had brought it back from Cairo the year before so it was rust-free.

p.s. Also saw this ad for a great-looking Hanomag truck-camper in BC, but a comfortable top speed of 70kph is just impractical in N-A (well suited to Third World travelling though...)
http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5091