New Cdi Benzes

[albertchampion]

i haven't been here in some months.

principally because i had nothing to say. had no questions.

now i do.

i was looking at a used 500e. but the owner has been so delinquent in furnishing me pix, that i have considered doing something that i said i would never do...buy one of the new electronified benzes.

specifically one of the 320cdi vehicles.

i drove a e320cdi in france 5 years ago and was impressed. i cleaned a new maser in the alpes maritime. nothing like compression braking in the twisty bits.

on the other hand, i have heard that benz had some qc issues with these vehicles.

and that there has been a secret warranty recall.

can any of you in this audience square me away?

thnx.

The 05-06 CDI's with the 3.2L inline 6 engine, like what you drove in europe, is a good vehicle. I've test driven one myself and was very impressed. I think the only issue they had was with the electronic brakes in the 05 models.

The 07 has the new 3.0L V6 is still too new to know much about the longevity/reliability. We do know that it's a significantly more complex engine that isn't very user serviceable, and is choked by multiple emission treatment devices in the exhaust in the E320 Bluetec (The ML, R and GL do not have this exhaust treatment). The ML320 CDI is also a few thousand $ cheaper than the E320 Bluetec.

[Jim B.]

Your posts were amazingly crisp and informative, and well written and you demonstrated a very analytical and excellent way of writing.

I am not personally familiar with the new CDi sedans, but the sense I get from reading up is that the qc nightmare years of 2000-2006 may be at last behind us with the Mercedes cars, and there is a good chance the 2007 and 2008 vehicles may prove to be good ones, though it is too early to tell.

The performance for a diesel engine is just amazing though, thanks to the wonderful torque they give.

You owe it to yourself to at least test drive one before making a decision.

If you pull the trigger on one, it would still be wise to drive away with the longest factory extended warranty you can get, though, to be on the safe side.

Out of warranty repairs could be ruinous on one if you are paying.

On the other hand, getting a really nice 500E/E500 with no problems would be a very, very wise move, a safe bet on a proven car that is reliable, durable, with the old school Mercedes virtues and very, very collectible and exclusive.

[t walgamuth]

agreed with the above post......if you can afford to pay for the fuel expenses of the gasser.....or won't be driving it much.

Tom W

[albertchampion]

some of you may recall my little fleet. i don't care to drive the 6.9 these days. and i thought a 500e would be the perfect replacement.

but, i have to tell you that my efforts to acquire one from an outfit that has one to sell are being met with the most extraordinary level of stonewalling that i have ever encountered.

consider...there was/is this individual in massachusetts who achieved a good rep for his m-b restoration skills. apparently he turned his business over to his children.

for almost a month, now, i have been asking for pix. i have my mechanic on stand-by to fly up and inspect the vehicle[s]. he would like to see some pix before he spends my money to make the trip. i finally got some pix of the undercarriage, but none of the engine bay, trunk, interior, exterior.

i figure that it would take all of 15 minutes to snap these pix and no more than that to email them to me.

but i seem to be unable to make this happen.

anyone out there have a solution?

by the way, i appreciated the head's up about the bluetec situation.

i really don't care to acquire a new benz. i don't care to deal with the autonation dealership. and dealing with my old friends from intercontinental in sugarland is tantamount to driving to dallas these days.

i really like my old stuff. when stopped the other day for way beyond reality speeding in my '87 560sec on the houston rentabahn[i drive it as if i am on an unfettered stretch of germany's best] i think the constable wrote me up for decades of mph less because he was of the opinion that no 20 year old vehicle could go that fast. i did appreciate his appraisal of "whitey" though.

"20 years old. looks brand new. nice".

94,000 miles young.

and can still do 140mph.

so it goes...

[Ara T.]

How long does it take those to get to 140? Is it like with a OM617 where it pulls like hell to 90 and then it takes forever to get to 100 (seems to be my top speed, maybe 102 or so) or is it just kind of a constant pull... I'd like to drive one of those one day.

There's a video of a european spec 560SEL that seemed to haul ass, it went to 60 mph from rest in 6 seconds...very respectable even today, especially for a 4000 pound luxury car.

[Gurkha]

The C220 4cyl pulls nice from bottom to top all the way up to 140mph without hitch, its not your old diesel anymore.

I really want an E420 CDI......

[Ara T.]

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

I really want an E420 CDI......

Hmm.. 300+ horsepower, 500+ ft-lbs torque, and 25 mpg? What's not to like?

That's out of 4 liters... I am scared to think of what they'd do with an even bigger diesel in a passenger car.

I read the whole engine weighs 570 lbs, a monster of an engine.

Do they make them anymore or are they developing a new Bluetec one?

[jcyuhn]

I've no idea how to strongarm Hatch. They have always appeared to have the best-of-the-best examples, though I find the pricing premium steep even given the apparent quality level of their stock. You may be able to find a nearby forum member to photograph the car.

On the 211 chassis cars, the 05 & 06 have the 3.2 liter inline CDI engine with the 722.6 5-speed transmission. The 07 has the 3.0 liter Bluetec V6 coupled to the new 7 speed geartronic transmission.

In terms of rated power, performance, and mileage there is no meaningful difference between the two. Having driven both, the Bluetec is significantly smoother and quieter than the CDI. From inside the car there is absolutely no indication it is a diesel engine.

The CDI cars have the SBC brake-by-wire system. Although most on the forum seem to fear this setup, the professional techs on the forum report very few issues with it.

The Bluetec has reverted to conventional brakes, but the new 7 speed transmission seems to be having some teething problems. There have been a few reports of repairs and replacements on essentially new cars.

I understand the Bluetec is leaving the U.S. lineup for '08, hence it is a one model year special. Unfortunately, I find it's problematic to get good service on cars which sell in such low numbers; the technicians don't seem to have to opportunity to understand the unique issues of such cars.

- JimY

[DieselAddict]

Interesting. I wonder why Bluetec has reverted to conventional brakes. Regarding the sound, are you saying even at idle you can't hear the diesel clatter from the inside? What about outside? I don't know about the rest of you but I fear the day when diesels become so ridiculously quiet that they don't sound like diesels anymore. For me, a large chunk of the appeal of diesels would be gone. I want more manual transmission diesels from MB. They can keep the ultra-complicated 6 or 7-speed auto transmissions for someone else.

[Hatterasguy]

They are great cars, I'd have no issues buying one.

I think the W211 is one of the better cars you can get out there for the money. Much better then the new BMW 5's, with that damn I drive.

What does compete well is the new Infiniti's, I'd take a look at those as well.

[albertchampion]

yes, these cdi's are as quiet as a sparky. at least that was my assessment of the e320cdi that i rented in nice in the autumn of 2002.

and yes, the european v8 cdi's would be very nice. that is what my limo driver was using in 2002. i don't recall if it was an NA or a turboed engine.

i acquired my first benzes new in 1973. a 220 and a 240d. two wonderful vehicles. i wish that i had kept them. i turboed the 240d. what a transformation. no waste gate. naturally-aspirated, it ran out at 84mph. turboed, i would take it to 110 and then stop it there, as i really didn't want to see the engine exploding.

the best thing about the 240d was the compression braking.

it was the same feature that allowed me to take a maser with the 320cdi in the twisty bits of the alpes maritime.

so it goes....

[Gurkha]

Did you dyno your OM616 turbo?