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  #16  
Old 09-02-2007, 08:41 AM
LarryBible
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Randy,

You won't lose my friendship with this, but my question is; is this junk a blend or a flammable? If it's a blend, then you can do some experimenting with it, but if it's a flammable, you will be facing some possible contamination problems.

Whatever the outcome, be prepared to THOROUGHLY flush the system before going back with a legitimate refrigerant.

Are you going to make it to the Winnsboro tech session?

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  #17  
Old 09-02-2007, 09:01 AM
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I have rs12a in my explorer and it works great but I never changed it in a vacuum.
I just charged a toyota 4 runner with freeze 12 and was really pleased with the results and will us again.
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2007, 09:30 AM
LarryBible
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Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN View Post
I have rs12a in my explorer and it works great but I never changed it in a vacuum.
I just charged a toyota 4 runner with freeze 12 and was really pleased with the results and will us again.

Yes, you are pleased with the results because at this point you are driving nice and cool.

If you were the person with an expensive recovery/recycle machine and you stood the chance of contaminating an entire container of recovered R12, you wouldn't feel so good about this junk!

Tell me, did you use Freeze 12 specific fittings and label the system as Federal law requires? Without doing it properly you are setting up some guy down the line to unknowingly contaminate an entire container of recovered refrigerant. That poor guy is trying to put food on the table and buy shoes for the baby like everyone else.

I would say that putting in junk refrigerants without proper fittings and labeling should be illegal, but guess what?...... it already is.

Using junk refrigerants in an improper manner almost always has a sad ending. I am not wishing anything bad on you. I am only asking that you follow the correct procedure for the benefit of anyone, including yourself, that will potentially service the a/c on that vehicle.
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  #19  
Old 09-02-2007, 08:58 PM
R Leo's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post

Are you going to make it to the Winnsboro tech session?
Hi Larry,
At this point, I'm still unsure if I'm going to make it to Winnsboro. We're going to a Field Day in Granger next weekend and to El Reno at the beginning of October...somewhere in there I've got to finish some things on the cabin so I can hang sheetrock. The projects go on forever, the party never ends.

I guess my attendance will depend on what I've gotten done at the farm.

For the record, the wagon had been converted to 134a sometime before I purchased her. So, she has the 'proper' fittings to prevent contamination of the R12 supply. Additionally, I'm the only person that EVER wrenches on this car. Also, ES12a is a butane/propane blend. no HCFCs.

As for Paul's link, it would appear that the guy had it coming to him. I ask: would a clear thinker have routed a 'too-long' fuel line near the fan and secured it with ty-wraps? No. I don't worry to much about fire because, if these things were exploding regularly, you'd definitely be hearing all about it. Treat the stuff like a flammable gas and you'll be OK.

Meanwhile, I'm drving with 38° temps at the main vent, something even my R12 cars can't do. Nice.
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  #20  
Old 09-02-2007, 09:51 PM
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Peopane being heavier than air, it would be laying in the lower areas of the vehicle and you may not be aware of it. all you need is some sort of an ignition. you will be as Ralph Cramden said on the Honey Mooners.
Pow Zoom to the Moon. It`s too dangerous.

You can be as careful as you want, but what happens if there is an accident at some intersection? could be like the guy on imcool.com with his hot car.

on the plus side, in the cooler weather you could use it for propane injection.

Charlie
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  #21  
Old 09-03-2007, 12:55 AM
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Me thinks gasoline is flammable, and folks haven't let the random fire here and there dissuade them from internally combusting........
Heck, for 38 degree vent temps I might soak my drawers in gas and take up smoking.......
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  #22  
Old 09-03-2007, 01:02 AM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyL View Post
Me thinks gasoline is flammable, and folks haven't let the random fire here and there dissuade them from internally combusting........
Very good point. Personally, I wouldn't worry at all about the slight danger HC refrigerants pose, especially compared to the 20 gallons of HC's we carry behind our back seats.
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  #23  
Old 09-03-2007, 06:30 AM
LarryBible
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Yes, one of the common thoughts about using junk refrigerant is that "I am the only one that works on this car." Will you be the only one forever? Sooner or later a stranger may have to service the a/c and contaminate their supply.

Flammable is not the primary problem with the flammable refrigerants. They are a serious contaminant if it is ever attempted to put legitimate refrigerant back in there.

I fully realize that among DIYers the junk refrigerants are VERY attractive. If you lay out some money for a recovery/recycle machine, however, your ideas will probably change after the first time you contaminate an entire cylinder with this junk.

This does not apply to all situations where junk refrigerant is used, but it amazes me the amount of time and money that people put into a/c repair and then save a few bucks on refrigerant. It's like throwing away dollars to pinch pennies.

My $0.02,
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2010, 08:26 AM
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I'm thinking of using this, how has it held up?
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  #25  
Old 06-03-2010, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEBalles View Post
I'm thinking of using this, how has it held up?
I have had Envirosafe in China for about a year. At temps under 90-95 it does fine. Over that and it is similar to R134a. Freeze-12 seems to work a bit better.
If your climate isn't too hot it may work fine. You don't have to worry about moisture with it at least, but you still need to flush system.
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  #26  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:55 PM
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i don't understand why people fool around w/ various refrigerants. mine came converted to r134, and it does take a few minutes to get rolling, but once it does, its fine. i like it cold in my car, the 134 is good enough. maybe not if you live way south, but at 90f it works fine.
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  #27  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:22 PM
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I have to say that in Sunny Dallas, my 134 is struggling in the 560SEL. It did fine up until the end of May and then it gave up. R134 still blows ice cold in the 6.9. Today I converted the 560SEL back to R12. Pulling a vac sucked up a pile of oil which may be why it's not performing well.
It may just have too much oil in it.

With R12 it's running cold but not as cold as the 6.9 with R134. I suspect that there is another problem or that the 6.9 A/C is on some sort of steroid.
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  #28  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:29 AM
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I think 134 works fine. I don't need the cabin to be 68* I just don't want it to be 95* and humid. But since they're phasing out 134a, then I'm looking for replacements so I can be ready for it.
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  #29  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:52 AM
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There are all sorts of things that will work fine in a 134a system, once 134a isn't available any more.

It's been more than fifteen years since R12 was "phased out," yet it is still widely available. I strongly suspect the same will be true of 134a.
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  #30  
Old 06-05-2010, 12:31 PM
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I put envirosafe in Norm after I rebuilt the system (well, after putting in 134 in first) and have been happy with the results.

Generally it sits around 48* while the vehicle is in motion, and climbs a little more then 5* when it's sitting. I only put two cans in though, could probably add half a can if I wanted but I don't want to over pressurize the system.

The 134 only got down to 65 MINIMUM and usually blew around 70ish on a hot day. In other words, es-12 works really well.

I'm considering trying their "air enhancer" product to see if it will cool things down a bit more.

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/152/t/air-enhancer/details.asp

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