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  #1  
Old 08-31-2007, 03:51 PM
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Enviro-safe ES12a Refrigerant Test

At the risk of losing Larry Bible's friendship, I've initiated a test of Enviro-Safe ES12a (hydrocarbon) refrigerant in the wagon.

It's been w/o an airconditioner since this spring when I discovered that most of the 134a had leaked out over the winter. The car needs a compressor (this one is making some weird clicking sounds) and I know the evaporator fins are about 60% plugged with a 24 year accumulation of crud. I figure I don't have much to lose and a lot to gain since I plan to pull the dash sometime this fall and covert the system to a manual control. At the same time, I'll R&R the evap and compressor and make a decision to go with hydrocarbon refrigerant or back with R12.

Anyway, I evacuated the system last night and shot two cans of ES12a into her...jeez that stuff gets cold! At highway speed, in 96° ambient outside temp, I am getting 38° at the center vent. My R12 cars don't achieve that. At idle the temp only creeps up to 40° or so...

More on this expiriment as it is available.

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Old 08-31-2007, 05:46 PM
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Interesting. I'd like to hear what the pressures are like.

BTW, I tried an experiment using propane. Adaptor to hook the bottle up to the guages and flipped it so I had liquid. No good results were ever obtained. Hi side was creaping to an uncomfortable pressure by the time I felt like I had a sufficient charge.
The smell alone of the very small amount that vented made me worry the FD would show up any minute.

I guess HCs are ok as long as the evap doesn't leak pooling vapor around the blower motor brushes.

Got dozer??? No. I'm no longer a member of the dozer club. I loaded her on a drop down today for the new owner. This wuss couldn't take the bone jarring of no rubber between me and the ground. Always felt beat up the next two days after clearing.

Last edited by Whiskeydan; 08-31-2007 at 05:57 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2007, 05:57 PM
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Propane is a good sub for R22 but not R12.

I have had good results with Duracool, another HC refrigerant.
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  #4  
Old 08-31-2007, 07:42 PM
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I believe that isobutane is added to propane to make an acceptable R12 substitute. It's not a legal drop-in, but R Leo doesn't have to worry about that unless he converts to R12 again.
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  #5  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:56 PM
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Im using ES12A with good results, many years. Not as good results as yours though !
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:59 PM
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Is it cheaper and easier to get than R12?
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:01 PM
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I can't wait for more details. Sounds good so far.........
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Old 08-31-2007, 11:17 PM
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I evacuated and charged wit Freeze 12 last spring, 16 months latter, good temps, no leaks, and a local garage stocks it just in case. I used the Freeze 12 kit from DG.
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2007, 11:31 PM
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It's my understanding that German refrigerators use propane as a refrigerant.
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2007, 02:38 PM
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You should not post of your intentions to convert R12 to a hydrocarbon refrigerant. What you do is up to you, but this isn't legal.
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2007, 11:56 PM
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How can this not be legal, especially if it is supposed to be environmentally safe?
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  #12  
Old 09-02-2007, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lietuviai View Post
How can this not be legal, especially if it is supposed to be environmentally safe?
Check this out:

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/609/saeepawarning.html
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Old 09-02-2007, 12:07 AM
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I did but it does leave loopholes.
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  #14  
Old 09-02-2007, 12:10 AM
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Check this out.....

http://www.imcool.com/articles/aircondition/Porsche_928_Refrigerant_Fire.php

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  #15  
Old 09-02-2007, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lietuviai View Post
How can this not be legal, especially if it is supposed to be environmentally safe?
What works and makes sense is not what drives the law.

MACS got the laws written to make this specifically illegal. The intent was to generate more money for air conditioning shops.

Note that it is perfectly legal to use HC refrigerants in an original 134a system; it's illegal to replace any ozone-depleting refrigerant with hydrocarbons.

So called "sham conversions" are also illegal. This is converting to 134a with the intention to shortly convert to hydrocarbons. If the original 134a conversion is not done with this intention, it is not illegal to use hydrocarbons. I don't know that anybody has been prosecuted for this sort of thing, but the fines are severe.

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