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  #1  
Old 09-07-2007, 07:17 PM
Dieselhead in training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
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1980 300TD buying ?s & oil preasure concerns.

I am looking at a 1980 300TD wagon tomorrow. 178K miles non-turbo 617.

My concerns:

This car was passed over by another potential buyer because of the oil pressure. I asked the owner to start the car. At warm idle oil pressure was 1.5. I asked him to rev it to 2k rpm and he stated it read 2.5. Is this something I should be concerned with or is this normal?

I will of course check for blow-by.

I am also concerned when the owner mentioned that in the back of the car is a empty oil container by Quaker State that read 10w-40. This car belonged to his father who he said was a Mercedes enthusiast. This does not seem to be a diesel motor oil. I am hoping it was just back there to throw away and not used in the car. However if this car was run on non-diesel oil what should i look for besides blow-by?

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Current Cars:
1980 300SD 201k daily driver
1960 190D 468k My Dad's car i hope to get running 1 day
2004 Acura TL 3.2 32k
1997 Honda Civic 63k
1989 Jeep Cherokee 166k
1960 GMC 1-ton 4x4 350ci v6 56k
1984 Ford F350 150K 1-ton crew cab dually
1976 Ford F350 157K crew cab 4x4 w/354 Perkins, Clark 5spd, Browning 4spd

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  #2  
Old 09-07-2007, 07:31 PM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrorison View Post
This car was passed over by another potential buyer because of the oil pressure. I asked the owner to start the car. At warm idle oil pressure was 1.5. I asked him to rev it to 2k rpm and he stated it read 2.5. Is this something I should be concerned with or is this normal?
That sounds a little strange. The idle pressure of 1.5 bars is good, but I would expect it to reach 3 bars at about 12-1400 rpm. My 617 lost oil pressure a few weeks ago (oil pump was failing) and it would not reach 3 bars until about 2500 rpm, but it was reading close to 0 at idle. I'm having trouble understanding why it would be OK at idle and too low at higher rpm.
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2007, 07:50 PM
pawoSD's Avatar
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
That sounds a little strange. The idle pressure of 1.5 bars is good, but I would expect it to reach 3 bars at about 12-1400 rpm. My 617 lost oil pressure a few weeks ago (oil pump was failing) and it would not reach 3 bars until about 2500 rpm, but it was reading close to 0 at idle. I'm having trouble understanding why it would be OK at idle and too low at higher rpm.
When my 617 is warm it takes about 2000rpm to get to 3bar....but it also reads 0-.5 most of the time when warm. I have experienced no engine issues.....and I suspect it to be the oil pressure sender. Think thats what it is? Or should I be worried. I am replacing my oil pan in a month or so....so I'll be able to see how stuff looks in there...including that little intake screen. But the engine runs smooth and starts right up every time....so I wouldn't think the pump is bad. The gauge has been jittering and acting strange for quite some time. Maybe I'll just change the pressure sender tonight or tomorrow...as I am quite paranoid. I have the new one, I was just going to wait till an oil change to do it.
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  #4  
Old 09-07-2007, 08:02 PM
Dieselhead in training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon
Posts: 53
I am wondering if the wrong oil was used that might explain the low lower oil pressure at higher rpm.

I am really hoping this engine is ok. It has been a long hard search for one of these cars for me but I don't want to buy a money pit.
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Current Cars:
1980 300SD 201k daily driver
1960 190D 468k My Dad's car i hope to get running 1 day
2004 Acura TL 3.2 32k
1997 Honda Civic 63k
1989 Jeep Cherokee 166k
1960 GMC 1-ton 4x4 350ci v6 56k
1984 Ford F350 150K 1-ton crew cab dually
1976 Ford F350 157K crew cab 4x4 w/354 Perkins, Clark 5spd, Browning 4spd

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  #5  
Old 09-07-2007, 09:26 PM
ForcedInduction
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Wrong oil or a weak pressure relief valve would be my guess.
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  #6  
Old 09-07-2007, 10:22 PM
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Incorrect or defective oil filter can cause low oil pressure. Best to avoid the filters made in India.
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2007, 11:25 PM
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I wish you good luck in finding a nice 617 powered TD, a large % of drivers swear by QS oil, the rest of us swear AT it... 10/40 oil was all you could get in the old days. qs is a good brand, I am sure it has at least CF rating, so as long as decent OCI was followed, that should not be the problem. the 123 oil pressure gauge is real, not sender, so that's not it. if it won't reach 3, as mentioned it could be a lousy filter, or it could be several other things. you may want to have the seller change the oil and filter and see where the op sits. if it was recently changed... walk away.
as a driver of a N/A TD, you may want to hold out for a turbo model anyway.
PNW is a lousy place to find them for good prices in good shape, but I am sure you will. I have 4... sorry we are so far apart... none of mine are cherry, but they were all affordable. check the Craigslists, check ebay, look around. you will find the one you want.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2007, 11:32 PM
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On the turbo charged cars it needs to be 3 bar by 3k rpm.

Its a very old engine, with a very old guage. As long as it hits 3 bar at 3k drive it. Put some tape over it, if it bothers you!
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2007, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
On the turbo charged cars it needs to be 3 bar by 3k rpm.

Its a very old engine, with a very old guage. As long as it hits 3 bar at 3k drive it. Put some tape over it, if it bothers you!
H is right. I've had a non turbo wagon- and loved it. It is not as slow as people tell you it will be, and last longer on average than the turbo model. Buy the car if the price is reasonable, and over the long run you will save money over the cost of other used cars, plus have the pride of driving a MB wagon.
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2007, 12:32 AM
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IMO, the more important thing is how often the oil was changed. Also, I love driving my N/A 1980 300TD. This car has lots of pep and actually feels lighter than the turbos for some reason.

178k is low for this car, IMO. If the body is in good shape and the price is right, I'd seriously consider it. Of course you gotta look at the condition of other things (vacuum, exhaust, suspension (sls?), flex discs, axle boots, tranny, etc).
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2007, 12:37 AM
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You're missing something here. 1980 wagons didn't have a tachometer. There was no way for him to find out if it's actually the RPM you wanted.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2007, 12:53 AM
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I truly love driving my 79 TD, due to it's spunky stop and go abilities. but on the highway the SD is kinda nice. I can't wait for my 85 Euro TD to get finished, so I can see how it is to drive.
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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2007, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstech View Post
I truly love driving my 79 TD, due to it's spunky stop and go abilities. but on the highway the SD is kinda nice. I can't wait for my 85 Euro TD to get finished, so I can see how it is to drive.
Yup, spunky would be a good call.....another thing too with these circa is theres less stuff in the engine compartment to deal with.
__________________
the sooner you start... the sooner you'll get done If it ain't broke, don't fix it.. Its always simpler to tell the truth...
2007 Honda Accord EX
2007 Honda Accord SE V6
96 C220
97 Explorer - Found Another Home
2000 Honda Accord V6 - Found Another Home
85 300D - Found Another Home
84 300D - Found Another Home
80 300TD - Found Another Home
Previous cars:
96 Caravan
87 Camry
84 Cressida
82 Vanagon
80 Fiesta
78 Nova
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Opel Kadet
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2007, 11:22 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by MBeige View Post
You're missing something here. 1980 wagons didn't have a tachometer. There was no way for him to find out if it's actually the RPM you wanted.
Good point, if he's just guessing at the rpm it's probably OK. It sounds like the idle pressure is correct, so it's unlikely to be a real issue. It's probably easier to tell while driving it. BTW, if you do end up replacing an oil pump, the parts cost is around $5-600.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
BTW, if you do end up replacing an oil pump, the parts cost is around $5-600.


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Gone:
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