Ran autocross in the 87 300D yesterday
 

It was fun! My first time running autocross in one of my own cars (last was in a 06 C230 2 years ago). This event is put on monthly by the DC area section of the MBCA. Still waiting to see my offical results but I didn't do half bad for a diesel at 56.37s! Fastest MB time of the day was a 190E-16 @ 49.91s and slowest was a 93 400E @ 63.33s. I was surprised to find out afterward that I beat an 03 E55, 05 Saleen Mustang and 99 Trans-Am, all by about a second! It was good though to finally be able to put my new H&R springs and Bilstein Sport shocks to the test. I plan on attending as many events as I can and try to improve even more.

http://a77.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/...125472006c.jpghttp://a791.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...700a96916e.jpg
http://a915.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...84888c2f72.jpghttp://a540.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...552f3d1db3.jpg
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Nice going John,,,, I'd like to try that myself some day.

That sounds cool! I was going to build the 528 as a autocross car, but now maybe I will do the 300SD instead. I can imagine chucking 4000 pounds around the course:D When I move down there I will have to change my membership from the NY Hudson Valley chapter of MBCA.

Nice! Autocross is about weight and having the balls to use your car. So its not surprising that you can run with an E55.

Cool John, nice run! Hey, you and Tom W. could team up ;)

You two are bad influences on someone who doesn't have the time to do such a thing right now yet the strong desire to do so!:)

Ah, it's my car's much-hipper twin ... doing much-hipper things than my car gets to do! I would love to do autocross but I'd probably be better not to do it in my car, since I'd be "braver" in a car I'm not quite so attached to.

Does everyone who autocrosses have a lot of suspension mods, or do some people run it pretty much stock? Seems like there's a wide variety of car-types and levels of "seriousness" among autocrossers at the events I've heard of.

I saw a presumably stock 740iL try to autocross in Portland last July. It was funny :D. There was a 500E there, but I don't think he took it to the autocross track.

I'd do it in my SD....I hope they have another michigan autocross next year....

Its a good way to find out whats wrong with your car's suspension! :D :D :eek::dizzy2:

Good going John! Wish I could have made it but will be there next month with the CE!

question
 

Do you have any sway bars (anti-roll bars) with your H&R and billy sport setup?

Looks like alot of body lean! But cool none the less, im hoping to do the same with my 87 once i get the AMG springs and shocks plus sportline sway bars installed!

But, you kept all 4 wheels on the ground.....

can be stock or modified
 

I used to autocross a bit in an 83 VW GTI I had. The classes are setup (in SCCA) by hp/#, then stock, slightly modified, and really modified. So you should be racing something you have a chance at competing with. The SCCA group in our area had a "circuit" of many tracks around NC that you could run. One was an old airport near Kinston, NC that had this very long straight.... over 1/2 mile I think. Many were just parking lots.

The GTI was wound pretty tight - 4000 rpm at 70 mph in 5th if I remember and topped out in the upper 80's. I never tried the bigger courses, just did the parking lot and small street races. Some groups have a novice class too. In my novice runs I beat an RX-7, Porsche 911, and an early 70's Buick GS in my group.

It is fun and pretty safe racing. Many folks treat it like running a 10K. Some folks are there to win, some are just there to personally get better. You can often get 3 or more runs on the same track in a day so you can see your improvements. I would even recommend it for beginner drivers. Have them start slow - at their comfort level, and gradually push it. One lady dropped over 60 seconds off a 3 minute time in the course of a day.

Chuck

Autocross is pretty safe. Safer than driving to and from the event for sure. If you spin out, you just kill some cones.

If you are doing it for the first time, I can't stress enough how much better off you are stock. 99.99% of drivers don't have the skills to drive the car as engineered originally without some seat time. Johnhef's beating a Saleen Mustang by 2 seconds shows how big a difference the driver can make. Modifying also makes it harder to learn. If you get hooked, just get some good tires.
The first time I went, it was a Porsche club event (at Ft. Meade, in MD). I met up with another Honda Prelude driver. He had the 160hp base model of the previous design, stock. He ended the day 3rd fastest, and 2.2 seconds faster than a Ferrari 328GT. My time was of course pretty bad, but I got a few seconds faster each next event with no mods. I then bought a good set of tires, took a Porsche club autocross school, and knocked even more time off. By my second summer, I was in the top 10 in my class, which was street touring - cars that had suspension mods and light engine mods. I was stock except for the wheels I bought to put my new tires on. Once you get the feel of the car at its limit stock, you make one change and tune the car, and you'll have a much better understanding of what's happening with the car.

Johnhef, you should check out the DC area BMW club. Cool guys, and fun courses. The porsche club also has events for non-members too.

I did my first autocross a couple months ago in my 911. It was a blast. I second the idea of checking out the PCA. They have a lot of autocrosses and often open them up to non-members. I should try my 240 4-speed sometime :D

Scott

good show!

That car doesn't lean much at all!

I wish I could get a hefty sway bar for my 123!

Yesterday I did an autocross at crown point indiana. good fun.

I beat a saleen mustang with a blower but the guy was doing it for the first time and he also was running street tires!

Tom W

Hmm.... I wonder how my 126 SD with TripleTred All seasons would do? :D

heck, I drive as hard as I dare on the (far from perfect :rolleyes: ) roads......

I would have liked to see a 126 out there, that would have been great! I do plan on taking the 500SEC out there when it's ready, I may take the 300CD next.

It really was fun to have a safe place where I could finally push my car to see what it's capable of. I had been wanting to do something like this for a long time.

take the CD... ^_^ I'd like to auto x my car

Sweet man!



I wanna do it again in my wagon. Those are FUN times!


What size wheels you running on there?

Where is the next one John ?

There should be events held by your local MB/BMW/Porsche/etc. car clubs, as well as your regional SCCA events.





There is a big autocross event in October in Cumberland, MD. I forget what it's called, but the DC area Porsche Club of America website usually has a link to it.

watch those tires 8-)
 

A service rep for the computer company I worked for at the time ran his company (1982) Pontiac Phoenix hatchback with all season tires. For some reason he had to request new tires sometime shorty after.... ;-)

The Porsche clubs do a lot of neat things. One of my greatest "foot in mouth" events was in college. I was taking a photo class and there was a cute, but few years older lady in the class. She was talking about taking pictures of "her car"... so I asked about it.. it was a Porsche... So I asked if it was a 914 (was that the 4 cylinder boxster type thing back then?), nope she had a 911.... oops... ok did you run an autocross or something.... nope, the PCA rented Watkins Glen. She was running with Nomex and helmut on the Glen! And I slowly backed away.....

Chuck

A lot of people will say that non OE rims and tire sizes hurt handling performance. Were you able to perceive anything like that out on the track with your setup?

:confused::confused::confused:

Yeah, don't listen to those people.

Aftermarket wheels should be considered carefully. Heavy wheels will ruin the ride and not be good for bumpy road handling. Wider rubber is no panacea.

Tom W

This is true. You still should not listen to anyone who says non-stock is always crap. It's crap if you get the wrong thing.

my bros 91 300d turbo with an auto tranny, i believe has likes 17 or 18 inch amg wheels, im gonna tell u right now that thing sticks to the road with minimal body roll.
U say ud like to see a w126 out there, find me whenanybody hears of something within reason to me and u will see a 300sd do things that u didnt think were even possible. I was born to drive.....

Yeah if you buy like super cheap chrome 19's or 20's.

I ran my 84 500sec at autocross last year. It really was not competitive, but I beat some folks who were pretty surprised a big benz could dance so well and I had a lot of fun.

Tom W

235/45 r17 sport pilots on my '84. I can pull absolutely insane Gs on sharp curves... I've never gotten them to slip, but off the line, they are a little slow... the NA just doesn't have the necessary torque, and I don't like to abuse my clutch.

205/70 r15 goodyears on my '83. taller sidewalls means more lateral roll, but its VASTLY superior to the OE 14 inchers.

IMHO you'd hafto be crazy to flog your benz thru a tight track on stock 14" tires.

I am certifiable I am sure.

I ran the 14" wheels but with hoosier slicks.

Tom W

That looks like alot of roll in the front, are there oem upgrades from the wagon for the rollbar on the 124s?

Wheel size correlates to better performance in the unpsrung weight (a lighter wheel is better). What size wheel depends on the goal. On my autocross car, I probably would've gone down an inch from the stock size if I could've gotten the width and the tire I wanted in that size.

Huh? There is alot of stuff you can do to the W124s to make them handle better. :)



For example, my wagon has 500E swaybars under it now. At one point last year, I had H&R springs, with Bilstein HD Struts up front. I also had the rear lowered with the SLS valve to try and lower the center of gravity. This was all sitting on either monoblocs or my chrome 8 hole wheels.

Someone on here replaced all the bushing in the suspension with ureathane bushings, but his name escapes my mind.

What class would a stock 300SD run in? I've been looking to run my MR2 as soon as I get new struts and fix the leak in the the clutch slave cylinder.

I would like to get my daughter involved in autocross to teach her how to drive well, but don't want her learning how to drive a stick at the same time. Seems like my tank would be a perfect car for her to start out on. I don't think she could hurt it.

they're the stock wheels on an 05 C-class. 225/45/17 and 245/40/17.

Most, If not all of them are held at Millbrook High School in Winchester, Va. Next ones are Oct 7 and 28th.

Well they're sorta OE ;) just not for that model. almost none of the older cars were using stock rims. The other diesel there a 93 300D 2.5 had the later 124's 8 hole wheels with slicks. He is much more experienced at it then me, and had me beat by a good 4 seconds.

Lowest class it appears for SCCA
 

The SCCA has a web page for "solo" as it calls autocross here:

http://www.scca.org/contentpage.aspx?content=61

THe classifications list does not specifically id Mercedes diesel models so they default to "H Stock", the slowest class I think. Here is the SCCA list by make / car:

http://www.scca.org/documents/Solo%20Rules/stockcategoryclassificationsbymake.pdf

Again, most of the fun is running against yourself, seeing if you can improve your times. At a particular meet, you may get 3 or more runs on the same track.

Chuck

Yes. Last week at Crown Point we got six runs each.

That is enough to wear an old man out!

Tom W

A lot of body roll?

That ain't no lot of stinking body roll, man!

YOu should see my 123 or my 126 last year!

Tom W

Yeah after lowering spring and sport shocks I hope there ain't that much roll ;)

John, I confess after reading this thread I am getting interested even "swayed" into buying some H&R's and upgrading my suspension on my Blue '87 300D.
The convincing blow was when I drove Ruben's Greasybenz car last week, man those AMG springs and shocks are trick! A little bouncy but reminds me of Konis I used on a jag :o
I have a question tho - I understand H&R's need a extra bump in the front, does that mean a +3 pad under the struts? I want to do it right the first time (DIRFT) :)
I'd use MB Sport shocks and struts to match the H&R's unless there is some reason to use HD Bilsteins.
I don't want to drag ground nor have a lot of rake, a little lower in the front would be ok l suppose.
I've been dreaming of this too long (gsxr almost had me do it some thing like 2 years ago!) its for a daily commuter not an autocross (well, maybe someday?)
Reid aka DDH

check the long reply to your PM but yeah, I wouldn't go less than 3bumps front or rear depending on what springs you get. I believe mine were 1.75"s.

Cool, way to go man. The guy that won SCCA nationals a few yrs back drove a old civic, he was dogging Porsches, vipers, anything else that bothered. Tiny wheels, huge offeset. Every car is different though.

If I did that in my 87 300D turbo, the rear axle would probably disconnect and pass the front. I need new bushings, bad! But it sounds like yours is well sorted. So drive it down to VIR or Road Atlanta for a BMWCCA club. If you think autocross in parking lot is fun, wait until you get on a world class track. If you can drive, you will be surprised how well you can get it to go around the track. The learning curve is awesome.

I take this on track, cant wait to go again --->

http://www.gruvenparts.com/website/i...pics/esses.jpg

Now that looks fun.

The track days seem to cost around two hundred for a day whilst autocrossing costs twenty dollars a day for members.

More in my price range at the present.

Also the hoosiers that will run a season in autocross will probably last a day at the track. about four hundred a set.

Tom W

the track weekend (2 day, 6 20min sessions) ran $375 with instructor teaching the line + classroom time. I just run street tires (Z rated khumo's) but use Hawk blue front pads (autozone cheap rear pads cuz who cares about rear brakes?).

worth the $$ for sure, but yeah not cheap like auto-x. You wont be cornering at 110 mph in auto-x tho ;)