Finally a man with some principles
 

I got a kick out of this guy's craigslist add. Seems he really cars about his car. http://raleigh.craigslist.org/car/419734895.html

Hehe.. that cracked me up.

Loved it! Especially the "hippie treehuggers" part

The only problem I see is that he's confusing biodiesel with veggie oil conversions, like 95% of the population out there.

Who does he think reads Craigslist?

Funny
 

A "Purist" among us.

lol
I agree, he's confusing biodiesel with WVO.
I don't see myself "bastardizing" my cars in any way, shape, or form by using biodiesel.

If I ever sell my car this is going in bold at the bottom of the add!

"This is a fine car with plenty of good miles left. I am not selling this car to anyone who will bastardize it into a biodiesel frankenstein either. This is not a PRIUS so hippie treehuggers need not apply!"


Classic!:D:D:D

The car? $6000
The next engine? $2000.00

Knowing it's not a Prius?
Priceless. :D

Yeah Prius's suck!:cool::D

It's just the idea of 'em I dislike. Cars are supposed to have horsepower, and run on fuel of some kind other than half-electricity. They're just... if we can't have our old monster v-8s and huge diesels anymore, then at least keep it somewhat real.

Let's ask the hybrid people in about ten years what it cost them to replace those huge batteries! I'll keep my petroleum, thanks! :D

So you mean to tell me that you, a guy with over 13K posts can't tell the difference between Biodiesel and WVO?

I know exactly what the difference is, I was just using a quite.:rolleyes:

While he used the wrong term, the message is rather clear.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This is fantastic! I work in Boulder CO, which is pretty much hippy central. While I don't care one way or the other the notion of choosing the next owner of your car based on their political preferences is Priceless!

You think Boulder is hippie central? One word: Berkeley, CA. :D
In any case, how exactly is one going to justify ruining a $6000 SDL by using WVO?

We need more people like this guy. :)

I might have to defer to Berkeley here, but those are rich hippies. Living that near to San Francisco is pretty pricey.:D

Come out here to the middle of nowhere where the hippies sleep in communes. In reality the mountains are far more likley to have them, they thrive in places like nederland.

In any event my SDL is very popular here with the locals. I however would love to sell my car to whoever has the most green. I just happen to not be in the market to sell right now.

Oh, and the WVO crowd might argue you are not ruining the car, simply severing your dependance on foreign oil sources.:rolleyes:

To each his own. Hybrids have horsepower, and more importantly, torque. I asssure you my Hybrid is very real.

Ask me now what it costs to replace the battery. Mine has a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty. After that, it's same boat you are in now. You can buy a new Mercedes engine for $3 or $4k, or pull one from the junk yard for $500.

I'd put my 1.0 liter, 3 cylinder, automatic transmission Hybrid against your Mercedes diesel. Unless you're driving a new CDI or a 98-up E300, I would win every time.

In terms of speed, torque... pretty much driveability... I'm willing to concede the point.

But my main focus is in the person who can only afford to buy one car every fifteen or twenty years or so. In that respect, I'm going with the petroleum fueled diesel because no new cars, diesel or otherwise, are truly being made to last that long. Honestly... with proper maintenance (which I can do myself on the simpler engine) - I'm betting that my already-21-year-old SDL - even with all its problems, will still be on the road if I don't wreck it after at least SOME of these new production hybrids are worn out.

At 150K our diesels are just reaching their prime! your hypebrid will be needing attention by then. Toyota or honda they arent built to last long as most new cars arent as well, they are just throw away cars. Drive em till something goes wrong and flip them for another one. Banks give you loans so easily even with poor or no credit that everybody can afford a nice car but never to invest in it.

Also put your hypebrid side by side to a VW TDI, that would be a better comparison. Build quality and overall reliability(engine wise) is up in the vdub then a toyota or honda. They at least have vinyl dashboards and door-panels, not hard plastic junk you find in all the new cars.

I'll agree with you. I would NOT want to own the Hybrid in 20 years.

The big "unknown" far as hybrids go is what happens when it comes time to sell or trade those vehicles. The lifespan of a battery pack is a fixed quantity. You can do a little to extend it - but eventually, physics get the better of you and the sucker won't accept or keep a charge Just ask me about all of the cordless tool batteries I've got accumulated waiting to recycle. I realize that the design of the hybrid batteries is different - lithium-ion (I think) vs NiCad or some newer technology. Lithium-ion, while more forgiving of charge-discharge cycles, will still eventually fail in the same manner as a lowly NiCad battery - at which time the car has the same resale value as a petrol-burner with a blown engine.

You can abuse a petrol-burner and shorten it's lifespan measurably. You can maintain it and easily get 250k miles of reliable service. Current technology makes that impossible on a hybrid.

I predict there will be a glut on the market of hybrids that nobody wants. Once the battery is kaput, unless technology or volume catches up and provides a replacement that's not multiple $K in price, the cars are going to be junked by the tens of thousands. The owners of these cars save $ at the pump now, and bleed those $ back when the car is worth squat at trade-in time. Why are they trading it in? Because the battery pack is shot, the seats are worn out, the A/C doesn't blow cold anymore, and it's only got 1 DVD screen in it, so they want a new car instead of fixing the old one. Who's gonna buy something like that - or accept something like that for a trade in?

Plus - we've yet to start seeing the news reports of people getting electrocuted or seriously injured when servicing a hybrid or attempting to aid a motorist after a severe crash. Bound to happen sooner-or-later.

You can see how hybrid technology is being bastardized into a luxury go-fast technology by folks like Lexus and Honda. Honda's Civic hybrid is a great car for the technology - I have a friend that makes a 50+ mile each way commute every day in his and the difference in fuel consumption almost makes the car note vs his old vehicle. However, "hybridding" an Accord to give it MORE HP, or a Lexus LS460 for that matter is not where that technology should be applied - IMHO. I'm not saying hybrids should be stuck in the right lane struggling to make the next hill in the road, but the technology, if it is to appeal to the masses, should be purposed to reduce fuel consumption, not cut your 0-60 times all the while being able to "act green" to your neighbors.

I'd never buy one because I hate the idea. I want a proper engine, hooked up to a proper gear box, driving the rear wheels. Thats the way a car should be. AWD would be a tough pill for me to swallow.

A Prius costs about $25k in my area. Hybrid and mileage aside, for that you get a cheap little econo box. Its like you are driving the economic penalty box of life, except you are paying a decent amount to do so. For that same money you can get a decent regular car like an Accord. Of a small Civic for $10k less.

To me a Prius is more about the statement, that H badge says I am better than you. Its no different than someone buying a BMW, Lexus, or MB for the badge. Big freaken deal you drive a hybrid you aren't saving the world on your own.

I don't see the point, a plain old Honda Civic will get all of 40mpg on the open road if not more. So you get a few mpg more, oh yeah that will get us off oil. Big freaken deal. I'd rather buy the Civic and keep the $10k in a bank. I hate the things, anytime I see one if I can I will cut it off or make its life difficult.

I have a "regular" Civic and it's a blast to drive and I get nearly 40 mpgs. It weighs less than the Hybrid version has a bigger trunk plus my rear seats fold which in the hybrid they don't. I also bought it slightly used with only 8500 miles on it so it cost me half what a comparable Hybrid version was selling for at the time. Its also simple enough to service it myself.
Hybrids fooey!:P
Mine will still be on the road for a long time after the Hybrids of the same age will been in the crusher.

a honda or a toyota are the best cars on the US market right now. they last way longer than any benz with less problems and they are easier and cheaper to repair/ maintain. the corolla, the dumbest ugliest car ever made since the yugo, has a timing chain and is virtually indestructible. a Honda, well everybody knows they are good.
mercedes needs 'tinkering' all the time and is really only good if you are really rich or mechanically inclined.
diesel people usually are, so hence there's plenty of diesels still on the road.
The US has no other diesels than mercedes and a few jeeps and vw-junk.
in europe this discussion would be very different. why have a hybrid if you can drive a 70mpg peugeot diesel...

You haven't seen my Honda... I'll be the one person that says that they are not as good as you may think. With the stack of receipts to prove it.

I rode in a Prius today, one of my profs. brought me back to the dorm from the parking lot after class.

First impression: Yes Toyota is Japanese... but for those who understand what I'm talking about, I felt like I was sitting in a "Made in China" label collection. The whole thing, especially the dashboard, just felt like I could take it apart with my fingernails if I wanted to.

1. The first thing the infernal thing did was start yelling about my seat belt. We were still in the parking lot. And not just a few friendly dings either, it was like having an alarm going off from the thing. I mean... I was going to buckle up, I just wanted to get all my stuff situated in the cup holders and so forth... that was the first annoyance. Guess all new cars do that. That's why I don't have a new car.

2. The dash creaked when my knees hit it (the seats were back) - it wasn't a sedan either, it was sort of a station wagon thing. It just felt... the buttons, the surfaces, the door handles... it all just felt Chinese and plastic-y. When I buy my twenty-year old prius, the first thing I'll do when I recover from changing the batteries is to fix the speakers that have died. Felt to me like when I took the dash apart, so much of it would snap and the clips would go and so forth.. felt to me like a glue-once-and-then-scrap-it deal.

3. Speaking of the battery... she went on to tell me that the dealership warned her never to let the passenger in the rear right seat go to sleep leaning on the side of the car, because they would cover up the ventilation for the battery and it would get too hot.

Do WHAT?!?!?!?

That ruins it for a beach-trip car, a road-trip car, an airport shuttle, a taxi... pretty much a practical car right there. Who wants to go on a ten hour trip when one out of five people has to stay awake and lean carefully not to hit the battery vents? That's just poor planning... unless it's a dealer exaggeration, in which case... idk. Just seems impractical. I mean... Granny can't keep her eyes open... Fluffy fell asleep and you hate to wake him... the baby threw the blanket over to that side... one of the grocery sacks shifted... just makes it about useless if this is true. If it's not then... it's still not great.

Bottom line in my mind, after seeing one? I guess it's a nifty little zippy car with lots of features and gadgets to play with. It's cool, it's interesting... but it's not practical. After seeing one, I'll still bet on our diesels or even the new diesels to outlast them. They just... they're one-owner cars. And if you're in the club that can afford a car trade every 3-10 years then I guess that's fair enough. That's pretty much the current way to do things I guess. But some of us are still old-schooling it and running cars for 10+ years... and after seeing one in person, I'd not place much of my life savings into betting on the Prius to make it that far.

I think the new Hondas have very nice interiors actually. Not so much the 'Yotas. I think Toyota has just gotten too big too fast for their own good.

They feel a lot better than 20 year old crackly plastic that's for sure. I always hated the 300SDL on rough roads 'cause the squeaky leather would vibrate and the door panels would rattle. W123 was much better in the squeaks department.

I think in 10 years the "old" MB diesels will have started to die, as cheap owners don't want to shell out the dough for the front end rebuilds, the new injectors ('cause they were running cold veggie oil) etc

Only the true MB diesel fanatics will have their diesels left. At least they'll go up in value.

I win. :D
So, uhh, how are the performance products for the Prius going?
What's the best chip?
:P

Hmm, get this. Toyota's ignition system on the Prius is called "Toyota Direct Ignition," or TDI for short!
HAH! THEY WISH!!
:D:D
Thank you, but I'll take my diesel any day over an "AT-PZEV."

As usual Clarkson hits the nail on the head, this just about sums the Prius up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdBVwwRgThU

Isn't that supposed to be instead A-PEZ, like the candy dispenser? I'm sure its about as good as one.:P

"Uhh, sorry, but I drove one of these things from my house to London, about 70 miles, and I averaged 45 mpg. A normal DIESEL will do better than that. A LOT better! .... I did the same route in a VW Lupo diesel and that did SEVENTY-FIVE miles per gallon."

Well said, Jeremy...well said.
And a top speed of 99 mph? Even the TDI has gone faster than that, and it's no rocketship by any means.

First of all, HenryD., thorsen, and others, I'm not trying to make this a hybrid bashing party. I respect them, I just... wouldn't own one for myself :D

An interesting description on that youtube thing... "And here's why. That is a normal 1.5 litre petrol engine which is sometimes used to drive the car, but sometimes it's used to charge the batteries which power... the electric motor"

Yes, I know this effect is minimal. But... just look at the design.

Whenever energy is transferred, efficiency is lost as some of it is lost to heat. So... instead of energy being produced by the gasoline, going directly to power the car, with a first stage loss to engine heat... it's going to the batteries. The electric motor then loses MORE efficiency when IT warms up as it works.

I know that it's such a small effect that it's not noticeable. But still... technically, using the electric engine by means of the gasoline engine means that one gallon of gasoline, used to move the car by itself, gives more efficiency per gallon than that same gallon, used to charge the battery, which is THEN used to move the car.

That's not how these hybrids work. The battery is charged mostly when decelerating, i.e. using the car's kinetic energy which would otherwise be lost. A hybrid is actually more efficient than a gasoline engine by itself. There's no need to bash these cars. Grow up people. It's just another way to save fuel (though not money). Not every hybrid owner is an ultra-left wing hippie.

The savings on one end, will catch up to them on the other end. they`ll have to pay the piper eventuelly;).

the thing that I get PO`ED about, is, we have these Diamond lanes, or also called HOV lanes in CA. you have to have two people in the car to use these lanes during commute time. well these hibrid`s can use these lanes with only one person in the vehicle. Just try that in a Mercedes. big fine $$$.

Charlie

:DPoint taken. However... if I wanted to REALLY get into a pointless argument just for the fun of it... I might try to say "yes, but would the car's kinetic energy last longer if part of it weren't being used to turn whatever kind of generator produces the current to charge those batteries" - it's like the wheel of an exercise bicycle. Tighten the belts or clamps or whatever, giving it another job to do with its kinetic energy, more to turn against... and it slows down faster :D but I see your point and I'm not going there.

Can I bash them for feeling plastic-y if I bash non-hybrid new cars including Mercedes econo-models for the same thing?

There's nothing wrong with objective bashing. It's just some people seem to bash stuff just for the sake of bashing. I used to own a Civic Hybrid and the dash was very rattly. So I would agree that the interior is pretty cheap. But my VW TDI may be even worse when it comes to interior rattles. Fortunately, I've been able to fix most of them by stuffing the offending parts with electrical tape or strips of pool noodle.

Regarding the kinetic energy, the system is fairly intelligent. The charging of the battery is proportional to the brake input. The more the driver presses the brake pedal, the harder the battery is charged, thus helping to slow the car down, saving the brake pads and capturing energy that will be used again to accelerate the vehicle.