Guess the consensus is my old auto was slipping more than a bit. Glad I got rid of it! I probably would not have done this were it working well, more because of the time and energy expended than anything else. Spent about $800 (donor parts, driveshaft shortening, new clutch master cylinder, rubber pedal pads, clutch plate, speedo cable, flexdisks, used crossmember), so savings over rebuilding the auto made the hours worth it.

I generally like the responsivness of the stick. I couldn't go left out of my driveway with the engine cold, it's a steep hill after a blind corner, and I could only do about 15mph until I got to the top. Now I can pull right up.

I also think it is not for everyone. With a nicely working auto, the MB drives well and comfortably, and the TC dampens driveline shock. There is a tiny bit more gear noise with the stick, and there is less "mush", so whatever play there is in the diff, couplings, flexdisks (mine are both new) gearbox, etc,. you feel when you let up hard on the accelerator. I have driven lots of sticks, and actually converted two other cars (Grand Wagoneer and a Saab 900), so I don't mind adjusting my driving. Not sure the average driver (not folks here generally) wants that much of the "driving experience".

Rleo, is the difference between the 5-sp and the 4-sp noticeable? Obviously you have better top-end rpm. Any difference starting off? Between gears?

I like the gearing of this old 4-sp, 4th is definitely a highway gear, third keeps you moving between 20 and 45 or so. 2d gear you don't have to stay in long, though you can. I may never have to rebuild this tranny, sounds fine but I know nothing about it. I figured maybe I should pick up the first cheap twin that comes along and rebuild it in my spare time.

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Peter
1985 300TD 4-speed 212K
1992 400E 343K
2001 E320 72K

Hmm, if you are running 205/15's your mileage is better than you think. you will actually be traveling further than your odometer is reporting. if you find the % differential of the size of the tires to actual 185/14's either with math, or with a stopwatch and mile markers, you can add that amount to your tank's miles traveled and see what you are indeed getting per gallon.

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
1987 300TD
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

5th makes all the difference in the world; it's precisely what these cars need in the age of 70+ MPH speedlimits.

Gears 1 -> 4 are the same so there's no difference in functionality there. But, 5th is about a 25% overdrive. My tach only works intermittently but at 75 MPH she's turning about 2600-2800 RPM...right in the fat middle of the torque curve. My economy has increased substantially (I never saw much change over the auto when I went to the four-speed) and, with fuel now pushing $3/gallon, it's feasable that I could eventually amortize the cost of that tranny.

Additionally, the sound level in the cabin is really reduced, making long trips much nicer. It was never terribly loud, but the wagon is overall, noiser than the sedan. The fiver makes it nice.

With your manual, do you have any gear/driveline buzz at specific RPMs?

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

RLeo, you make a good case for re-cutting my driveshafts when and if I ever find a 5-speed.

No driveline buzz that I have heard so far. Don't jinx me, I am still listening hard, and I have had exactly a week with this new beast. The first time I took it on the highway, it seemed noisy; subsequent trips make me think I was just paranoid, worried about the thing falling out. It seems very quiet in all the gears except lugging it up a hill you can hear the gears complaining. I have spent a lot of time in 3d and 4th, less in 1 and 2.

I was expecting vibration based on the testimonies here, but if anything it seems quieter than before. I had the driveline professionally cut and balanced, and put in the alternate 240 trans crossmember which fit like a charm, using a new 300 rear mount (much thicker than the 240). New flexdisks, fresh ATF of course.

I also have the 240 flywheel and did nothing to balance. I could not see any matchmarks on anything but the disc attached to the torque converter, so we just put the thing in where the holes matched, meaning any one of twelve possibilities! It idles smoothly, a tad higher obviously, and not a whisper of anything suggesting major imbalance. The long term results will hopefully bear out what others have found about using the smaller flywheel.

By the way, my tech found me a nice wooden (zebrano) shift knob that is not only pleasanter than stock, it is also shorter by 1.5", shortening the throw and the height above the console. Any interest, I'll find out who and where. I think it was $75 or so. Pricey for frills, but it helps convince my family that my 22 year old car is not just a beater! I don't understand them....

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Peter
1985 300TD 4-speed 212K
1992 400E 343K
2001 E320 72K

You make a good point, vstech. I have not done the math with the larger tires. I'll factor that in when I get around to measuring.

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Peter
1985 300TD 4-speed 212K
1992 400E 343K
2001 E320 72K

a few things.

first the na 300ds have 346 gears, the 240 123 has 369 gears.

second, the output on the speedo is off the tail shaft of the tranny so if the torque converter is slipping it does not know anything about it so the speedo has no need of a different gearing.

you should always get better economy with a stick all other things being equal, less slip and it takes less power to twist a manual tranny than an automatic (these old ones anyway).

Glad you are enjoying your manual conversion. I am too.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I changed my diff from the 3.69 originally used for the 240D to a 3.46 from a non-turbo 300D. My economy went from 23mpg to 25.4mpg.

And the fiver takes that one step farther. Cruising at 70-75 and regularly seeing 26+ MPG. Even 2.88s on these cars spin the engines too fast at today's highway speedwhen running an auto or 4-speed.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

.........until you wish to climb a grade..........then you realize the 2.88 is too tall.

I love the 2.88 in the SD, but, it needs maximum power to hold 65 mph on a "decent" highway grade. I've got to find out the actual grade on a the worst offenders.........I'm curious as to the grade percentage and the capability of the SD.

Of course, you have the benefit of a 5-4 downshift if you encounter such conditions.

I briefly considered swapping in a complete subframe from the parts '85 300TD I have. I addition to a 2.88 rearend, it has low mile trailing arm bushings, rotors, pads and e-brake shoes (all R&Rd in late 2004). But, after driving the car with the 5-speed, the 3.07 gears are perfect.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Do you mind sharing with us the mercedes part# ang getrag part # of your tranny?

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'85 300D Cal 280,000 miles
'14 GLK 350 60000 miles

The number on the Mercedes box is a casting part number. It starts with 115...no other tranny number per se.

The Getrag has a stamped number on it but I cannot recall what it is. I'll be doing some work on the car next week and it will be on the stands. I'll get it then and post.

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Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Its not 115 261 2501 is it? I read in the archives that this was a 4 speed.

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'85 300D Cal 280,000 miles
'14 GLK 350 60000 miles

Kudos to whoever (Tom?) guessed 29. 29.4 on a highway trip (250miles) am on my second tank, so will let folks know if it changes.

And I have 205-15's and the 2.88 rear and had no problems at highway speeds on hills. Just did the length of the Mass Pike (hilly on the western end) and I-84 between PA and Boston. No problems climbing hills, no lugging. 70mph ( maybe a tad more, my speedo is off) was 2500-2800rpm, and hung in there. Had to downshift with slowing traffic, but that was it. 45mph was about as slow as I could go on a flat in fourth and accelerate decently.

Here is where I might take issue with RLeo, not sure I want to be coming out of fifth on the highway for every hill. I guess with a shorter diff, a 5-sp would be fine. the 4-sp seems fine with the 2.88, I got up to about 75-80 at times, the engine sounded fine.

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Peter
1985 300TD 4-speed 212K
1992 400E 343K
2001 E320 72K

That sounds pretty high. I will be impressed if you can get that consistantly.

Great though.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.