Bob Lutz of GM talks about Future of Diesel in US - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mister Byrnzoil · #1 09-14-2007, 09:22 AM

a u tube vid that I found ineresting... it might be worth 5 mins of your life.

he talks about the new diesel emissions standards and their effects.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xXA22Q0qXNM

John Schroader · #2 09-14-2007, 11:09 AM

Interesting. Not exactly encouraging, but interesting. Thanks for sharing.

75Sv1 · #3 09-14-2007, 12:20 PM

I think GM is more interested in their Volt electric hybrid and fuel cell technology. They have a lot riding on the investments they have made. I work for a diesel engine manufacture, so my view might be biases also.
Tom

dukegrad98 · #4 09-14-2007, 12:23 PM

Boohoohoo, Bob. VW is making compliant vehicles for under $25k. Why can't you?

Maybe instead of spending $2000 per car on legacy costs and waste, GM could spend the same cash on development and providing cars buyers actually want...

The man's a dinosaur. Just like his company. Now ask yourself what happened to the dinosaurs...

To throw the guy a bone, I do agree with his state-by-state standards analysis. The feds should have occupied this field so California and a few others couldn't totally screw it up for everyone else.

Cheers, John

Hatterasguy · #5 09-14-2007, 02:00 PM

His view is right in line with the fed and state governments, they would outlaw diesels if they could. They simply do not want diesels in this country.

2.5Turbo · #6 09-14-2007, 04:11 PM

A few things I noticed.

First of all, the urea is not injected into the fuel.

He states that the cost of clean diesel technology is going to tack a premium onto the cost of a vehicle. That is true. But what premium are these new gasoline technologies going to command? He didn't even consider the dirty word "hybrid". A Toyota Camry hybrid costs at least $5000 more than the equivalent straight gasoline model. Then you have to worry about the life, cost, and environmental impact the batteries will have after 100k miles.

He doesn't even consider technological advances in diesels. He says all this stuff about future technologies in gas engines and how great the economy will be, but fails to state anything about diesels and fuel economy advances in the future, which there most likely will be.

He indirectly states there isn't a solution for CARB states. Won't Bluetec with the urea injection be 50 state compliant?

#7 09-14-2007, 04:58 PM

Dangit! Why isn't a 100mpg series-hybrid diesel for sale yet?!?

If a VW Lupo with a traditional diesel and gearbox can get 70mpg, a hybrid should have little trouble getting 100+.

pawoSD · #8 09-14-2007, 05:18 PM

Its all skewed, they love to say how "diesels pollute so much more than gas engines" but if two people going down the freeway, one in the ever so popular F-150 V8 5.4 liter pickup....and one in a diesel Lupo....I'd say since the lupo is burning 1/6th the amount of fuel per mile....that its a little better to the environment.

The diesel may "pollute" more per gallon burned, but when it burns 6x less gallons per distance traveled...the advantages become appearant.

Too many people in this country drive (and will continue to drive) huge V8 powered SUV's and trucks. Those pollute sooo much more than any average diesel does. Not to mention how much physical consumption of fuel they cause.

Stupid American Car Companies.

Brian Carlton · #9 09-14-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Its all skewed,

Stupid American Car Companies.

It's skewed.......for sure.

The car company builds vehicles that are desired by the consumer. If the consumer didn't want giant $hitboxes that get 12 mpg, they'd rot on the dealer lots.

Is that happening?

Then why condemn the car company?

If you think the car company can achieve 30 mpg with an Expedition if they made a few "tweaks"..........well, you're deluding yourself.

#10 09-14-2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

If you think the car company can achieve 30 mpg with an Expedition if they made a few "tweaks"..........well, you're deluding yourself.

They could if the 100mpg carb plans weren't being kept covered up by the oil companies.

pawoSD · #11 09-14-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

It's skewed.......for sure.

The car company builds vehicles that are desired by the consumer. If the consumer didn't want giant $hitboxes that get 12 mpg, they'd rot on the dealer lots.

Is that happening?

Then why condemn the car company?

If you think the car company can achieve 30 mpg with an Expedition if they made a few "tweaks"..........well, you're deluding yourself.

Well, I suppose I shouldn't condemn the car company, but it shows when their development focus is all on trucks/suv's while their small cars are poorly designed and only updated mechanically every 10 years. People do want small fuel efficient cars, there is a big market for it, and Toyota/Honda/etc...have taken a huge part of that market, which has come back to haunt GM/Chrysler/Ford as their small cars are less efficient, and can't compare in terms of quality or reliability.

I suppose in the end its going to be up to the cost of fuel. Once gas costs $5+ or even $6+ a gallon, people will rethink their SUV when they pay $250 to fill the tank on a regular basis.

patbob · #12 09-14-2007, 06:10 PM

Interesting, and yes, worth 5min of my life

Also found his take on diesels interesting.. to summarize:
It's really, really hard to meet the new emissions standards with diesels, and we have a lot of cool new gasoline technologies we're still in the process of developing, but consumers are clamoring so we'll throw them a bone and offer them large diesel engines in our larger vehicles. Oh, and those small, efficient, zippy VW TDI's? Who'd want one anyway? Surely not our customers.

That about got it?

Also, did anyone notice the mention of the all aluminum, V8 diesel? Anyone care to guess what the catastrophic failure on that design will end up being?

pawoSD · #13 09-14-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patbob

Also, did anyone notice the mention of the all aluminum, V8 diesel? Anyone care to guess what the catastrophic failure on that design will end up being?

Perhaps they figure they're overdue for another high failure rate V8 diesel.......

lkchris · #14 09-14-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patbob

Also, did anyone notice the mention of the all aluminum, V8 diesel? Anyone care to guess what the catastrophic failure on that design will end up being?

None at all as far as Mercedes' current all aluminum V8 diesel available in Europe in various 420CDI models. No problem with the all aluminum V6 diesel available in 320CDI and 280CDI models, either.

Whether GM can build one or not is indeed doubtful as all its development money goes to production worker pensions and healthcare.

C Sean Watts · #15 09-19-2007, 11:17 PM

--Now, not getting personal but if the shoe fits - hey, you know the rest.

Start paying attention people. Lutz is right, stratified charge gasoline engines WILL replace the small diesel - notice I said small? Direct gasoline injection and/or induced ignition gasoline engines will surpass diesel efficiency with far fewer particle emissions.
Read up on Euro five standards vs US standards THEN tell me why the Bluetec was developed for the US/Canadian markets.

I suppose we can start a federal government buggy whip industry bail out but do we really need to?