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  #46  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:10 AM
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The K40s are known to be troublesome but I don't think it could be related to the air in the lines you are seeing...that must be due to a leak.

The SO valve could have a hairline crack which would cause all of your troubles. So could the lift pump for that matter. The lift pump can be removed without removing the IP, it is simply attached to the side of the body. The PN for the lift pump kit is 0000907750 and it lists for $154 and is available from Duval for $120. The PN for the shutoff valve is 0000784449 and it lists for $167 and they get $130 at Duval.

Basically, for $250 you can eliminate the two most likely causes of air leaks...I'd really doubt the IP itself has developed a crack...it is a metal casting whereas both the pump and SOV are plastic...much more likely to have a crack in either of them.

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  #47  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Terry,

I'm waiting for a quote from Phil on the K40. I think I'll triple check all the O rings first. then the K40, then maybe the S/O and fuel pump. Can I replace the fuel pump with the IM in place? I'd really rather not remove it, my tools/skills are limited. And if I screw up I'd really hate to take it back to the same place.

You mentioned the k40 can cause quick shut offs and slow starts. In the case of the latter would it allow air into the fuel lines or would it just not open completly?

Honestly, stop P*ssy footing on the K40 issue. In many prior threads it's been stated that the K40 is essentially the achilles heel of the w210 chassis. The K40 affects many different functions of the cars electrical. Go to your local stealer and buy it. It's essentially $100, not too bad. I understand you are trying to narrow the problem down while keeping finances in the spotlight. Replacing the K40 while give you the peace of mind knowing that for a long time you should not have to worry about the car randomly shutting off, not starting or otherwise (due to the electronics, for the most part). It's quite rare to read about the ECM going bad or even the lift pump.

And you indy, isn't too familiar with the OM606. The lift pump is a separate item and can be replaced as such. Sometimes these OM606's can be a PITA when it comes to the rubber o-rings. I'm still kinda battling something with mine as I know it doesn't start as perfectly as it used to, there an extra little shake after she fires up, but that's swaying off topic.

BTW, don't want to come across as being meam, trying to get the point across of the importance of the K40. Easier to spend $100 than $1,000+ to R&R something that may not be the culprit.
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  #48  
Old 09-26-2007, 12:29 PM
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Where do I get parts from "Duval"

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhdoc View Post
The K40s are known to be troublesome but I don't think it could be related to the air in the lines you are seeing...that must be due to a leak.

The SO valve could have a hairline crack which would cause all of your troubles. So could the lift pump for that matter. The lift pump can be removed without removing the IP, it is simply attached to the side of the body. The PN for the lift pump kit is 0000907750 and it lists for $154 and is available from Duval for $120. The PN for the shutoff valve is 0000784449 and it lists for $167 and they get $130 at Duval.

Basically, for $250 you can eliminate the two most likely causes of air leaks...I'd really doubt the IP itself has developed a crack...it is a metal casting whereas both the pump and SOV are plastic...much more likely to have a crack in either of them.



If the pump or SO valve had cracks wouldn't they leak fuel? This car isn't leaking any fuel (unless it has started while at the indy's)
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Last edited by muleears; 09-26-2007 at 04:22 PM.
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  #49  
Old 09-26-2007, 04:55 PM
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Well, I picked up the car. While there I pointed out the fuel pump to the tech/owner, much to his chagrin. He then told me his parts man told him they only came as a unit but if I brought the part in he would install it free of charge...

At the shop, cold, the car started right up. On the ride home it didn't seem to have the punch it used to, quite a bit of hesitation on acceleration. But I thought "I'm not taking it back!" Got home and opened the hood with it running to see whats what. Then I saw why it was running the way it was. There was air coursing through three of the fuel lines as the car ran! I was astounded. I then tried a hot restart. It started but very hard. I think the 3rd 30 sec. try it started and ran. I then looked at which lines had air, in the pic in this link http://detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=210025&M=606%2E962&GA=722%2E608&CT=M&cat=19T&SID=07&SGR=120&SGN=04

in the second diagram fuel lines 74,56 and 119 all had a significant amount of air rushing through them. Line 119 looked like foam.

The air seems to start at (or before) the fuel pump (line 74). The other line to (from?) the pump has none while running. Does this lead me back to my fuel pump and/or SO valve? If this involves the shutoff valve I suppose the K40 could still be the cause. I guess my next steps are the O ring on the SO valve, the K40 and the fuel pump. Sound reasonable?

It appears something they touched made the situation better/worse.
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Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K

Last edited by muleears; 09-26-2007 at 05:13 PM.
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  #50  
Old 09-26-2007, 06:19 PM
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Sounds like a massive leak.

I'd look at the pre-filter. Make certain they didnt forget to put the big oring on the underside of the pre-filter. It been done before.

If its not that one I'd guess it would be comming from the S/O valve. Oring or valve itself although I'd also check EVERY fuel line and make certain all are snug and both clips are engaged on the flanges they attach to. You may need a mirror and flashlight to see all of them. Pull the windsheild washer bottle out of the way to get some room to peak under there.
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  #51  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:08 PM
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Its getting dark now, that will have to wait till lunch tomorrow. So if one of the lines on the fuel pump is full of bubbles and the other isn't, doesn't that mean the air is coming from inside the fuel pump? Where is the supply line for the fuel pump?
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'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
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'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #52  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:19 PM
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I'll send the fuel path to you when i am home from work. Your leak, as described seems as if it should be the feed side.
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  #53  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:28 PM
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I had the same situation recently and was addressed in my prior thread. I replaced all of the plastic fuel lines and upgraded the o-rings to Viton units. Only line I didn't replace was the return line that has the banjo bolt. I put her back together and ran her to Florida and back without a hitch. I could see some small air bubbles just after I assembled everything but I had a steep hill near me that was my test area as before I replaced the lines halfway up the incline it was start to hesitate gradually in a systematic fashion and nail.... It could take some time to purge the air out of the system from what others posted in my thread, but I never had a problem re-starting it though...
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  #54  
Old 09-26-2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleears View Post
Its getting dark now, that will have to wait till lunch tomorrow. So if one of the lines on the fuel pump is full of bubbles and the other isn't, doesn't that mean the air is coming from inside the fuel pump? Where is the supply line for the fuel pump?
I'd strongly suspect that the pump is the source of the air leak then...either the o-ring on the suction side is bad or the pump body itself has a crack on the suction side which is drawing air into it...it would not necessarily leak fuel, just draw air when the pump is trying to draw fuel. I think if it were mine I would replace all 3 suspect parts, the SOV, the pump and the K40...none are that expensive or hard to replace and each has its weaknesses that could leave you stranded one day so replacing them as preventative is not crazy.
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  #55  
Old 09-26-2007, 08:04 PM
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I have to travel next week, probably 800mi. If I can't fix it before monday will it damage anything to drive it this way? Will it run too lean?
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'07 E320 Bluetec 133K my DD
'04 Jaguar XJ8 VDP, 34K
'10 Hyundai Accent 60K Grocery Getter
'02 VW Golf soon to be on the road again
'97 E300 Diesel Son's DD
'61 VERY tolerant wife

Hampton Roads, VA USA

Gone but not forgotten:
'67 250S 95K
'86 300SDL
'87 300D Turbo, 364K! R.I.P.
'98 E300 Turbodiesel, 213K
'02 S420, 164K
'01 Prius 138K
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  #56  
Old 09-26-2007, 10:26 PM
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with Marty's post concerning where your air leak is coming from.

You said you had air in line #56 on the detail you referenced. That is on the front end of the feed side. The leak must PRECEDE that (eg: line #56 where it attach's to side of the fuel filter housing, the pre-filter, pre-filter oring, either end of line #32, #155 heat exchanger that you previously said your mech replaced for you, or the supply line from the fuel tank attached to #155).

One or more of THOSE seals ought to be bad.

See attached detail for fuel path. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/attachments/diesel-discussion/38226d1163965668-om606-fuel-flow-schematic-fuel-lines.png

From the sounds of it, it should not be too difficult to find. Fire it up and put a thumb on the pre-filter end of line 32 and lean on it hard and see if the air clears up. If that doesn't do it start wiggling each of the connections discussed and see what happens.

Your mech does know that the white horseshoe clips attached to the fuel lines should be loose and floppy after they are installed, correct? They are pushed closed (like a ringer in a game of horseshoes) in order to remove the the fuel lines.
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  #57  
Old 09-27-2007, 07:06 AM
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I may have misread or misinterpreted his statement, I assumed he meant he observed air bubbles coming out of the fuel pump but not going into it...so my conclusion was the leak had to be either on the inlet connection to the pump or the pump itself.

And Terry has an excellent point about the white clips as the normal position of these, being loose and floppy is counter-intuitive so most techs who are unfamiliar with their design push them to the "release" position...that in itself can cause a leak. Check that first.
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  #58  
Old 09-27-2007, 08:03 AM
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Can I ask for further clarification on those white clips? I'd like to verify on my own car and am not familiar with the design at all. They're supposed to be pushed until they stop and that's considered the lock position?

Thx.
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  #59  
Old 09-27-2007, 10:12 AM
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No, that's backwards. You push the clips in to remove the lines. And yes, it is counter-intuitive!
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  #60  
Old 09-27-2007, 10:26 AM
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The horseshoes only make sense when you look at one off the car and understand they are "spreaders" designed to release the shoulders of the clips that hold the fuel line down.

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