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PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/)
-   Diesel Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/)
-   -   OEM Oil Filtration Efficiency 50%@27μ / 99%@50μ (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/200877-oem-oil-filtration-efficiency-50%25%4027-99%25%4050.html)

estod 02-23-2008 07:52 PM
I'm quite amazed that MB sells filters with a good tablespoon or better of pure dirt in them, instead of forcing the makers to copy Turkish Frams, which I understand to be the original design.

Has anybody written MB and enclosed the pictures this site has generated? I wonder if they know what is really going on. I find it astonishing that a company that built its reputation on fine engineering could let such a practice continue. There's no Pep Boys close, so I use Wix. At least I know I'm not dumping dirt into the engine.

During one of the first oil changes I did with my 240D, I replaced the little o-rings on the filter housing shaft, and was obeying instructions read on this site for blowing out that shaft with compressed air. Sticking out of the top hole in the shaft was a tail of cotton fibers - maybe .75" long when I pulled it out. That's for those who think the junk in those bypass sections stays there & it's OK to use them because MB says it is. That's when I changed to Wix.

DeliveryValve 02-23-2008 10:37 PM
5 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonlite (Post 1769849)
.....


I'm on the fence between Mahle and a Turkish Fram

I'd stick with the Turkish Fram if you can find them. My buddy and I just recently changed oil on his 617 and we pulled out a Mahle Filter. After reading this I decided to open up the Mahle. Twigs, bugs, seeds and dirt!

In case your wondering, the other filter in the first pic is a Mann Volkswagon 2.0 TDI Filter

pawoSD 02-24-2008 01:04 AM
I think it would be awesome if Roy or Phil could source the Turkish Fram filters and sell those here on fastlane along with the others...even if they carried a slight price premium over the ones featuring Twig n' Dirt technology. :D ;)

I'd buy them....is it possible to source those?

I luckily do have a Pep Boys within reasonable range....but not everyone does....especially since they closed some stores recently. (Including one 3 miles from my house :o )

I think I will head out to the one further away from here soon and see if I can clear the shelves of some more Frams.....I am going to start building an inventory so I can have as many as possible for the future. They usually carry 4 at a time....maybe I could get them to order in more....like 8 or 10 or something.

bobodaclown 02-24-2008 10:21 AM
Great Pictures. Guess in about 3K Miles I'll open mine and post them.

ForcedInduction 02-24-2008 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve (Post 1772685)
After reading this I decided to open up the Mahle.
I especially like picture #3, notice the cotton is just sitting in there. No compaction, no uniformity and no way to force the oil through it.

moonlite 02-24-2008 12:08 PM
What is inside the MB factory by-pass filter section?

I guess I'm having a hard time with Fram being the higher quality filter, because I associate Fram with Kragens.

I found 2 Turkish Frams and agree, that these are a better media. How is their orings fit into canister... snug or loose?

moonlite 02-24-2008 12:13 PM
Lets set up a poll on "what filter would you buy if the price and availability where all equal".

fdanielson 05-01-2008 08:18 PM
Oil analysis results
 
1 Attachment(s)
I've been running an STP oil filter on an unmodified engine along with Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 oil. This oil analysis was done with 4900 miles on the oil and it's still going strong with low levels of dirt (insolubles 0.3%). If you notice I've added 3 quarts of oil in that 4900 miles so you could make a good argument that some amount of contaminants are leaving with the oil. The odometer was non-functional on the vehicle when I got it so the indicated mileage is short by some unknown amount. For a 25 year old diesel with close to 200,000 miles to have oil that clean I couldn't be happier with the stock oil filter design. It's almost like the engineers at Mercedes Benz knew what they were doing.

bustedbenz 05-01-2008 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForcedInduction (Post 1771038)

Look at the disassembly pictures of the oil filters and try and tell me again it actually cleans the oil.
With respect, look at the number of high-mileage MBs out there whose owners did not abstain from using cotton waste filters and try and tell me those engines are suffering.

Diesel911 05-01-2008 10:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJ (Post 1633299)
Doesn't the Baldwin filter also use paper (non-waste) as media?
Yes, in the picture it appears that both top and bottom are pleated paper elements:
http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/
When I Emailed Baldwin Filters concerning the Micron Ratings they Claimed: the Full Flow (small lower) section to be 18microns and the by-pass at 15 microns.
However at the time I ask the question I had not looked into the rating systems of oil filters.
If these are "Nominal" ratings it means that they filter out %50 percent of that size or larger particles.
As best as I can tell from what I have learned this would be a Beta (or the greek letter B)18 micron=2 for the Full Flow part and a Beta(B)15 micron =2 with the "2" reresenting the %50. It could also be listed as a Beta Ratio 18/15=2/2
An "Absolute" rating, as an example I will use a Absolute 5 micron filter is listed as Beta(B)5microns=200 with the 200 representing it filtering 99.5% of the 5 micron particles or larger. "Absolute" rated filters are suposed to have a Beta rating of 200.
Here are some filter cross referance sites. Some of them will tell you the filters Beta, Nominal or Beta Ratio.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp
http://www.filtermart.com/fpdbdb/fmccross.asp
http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/

Diesel911 05-01-2008 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxwaker (Post 1633439)
Does MANN manufacture the fuel spin on filter as well? I've only seen Mahle and Bosch...

I'd be very interested in the filter efficiency of the fuel filter if you can dig this info up...
When I cross referanced the Bosch 74012 secondary fuel filter over to the Wix version 33249 it was rated a Nominal 10 microns meaning that it filters out %50 of the particles 10 microns or larger.
I randomly picked different makes diesel fuel and filter part numbers from filters that are selling on Ebay. After running them through the Wix filter cross referance I found the most seconday fuel filters are in the Nominal 10 micron range a few were awful up there in there above.
CAT and some of the PU trucks with cummings engines have fuel filters around 2 micrions.
here are some sites with filter interchanges:
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp
http://www.filtermart.com/fpdbdb/fmccross.asp
http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/

Diesel911 05-01-2008 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRG (Post 1631334)
FWIW - i've seen some threads here regarding "who makes the best 616/617 oil filter", and i have some contacts with OEM supplier MANN, so i inquired about the PF 1055/1x oil filter:
http://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodka...images/371.jpg

PF 1055/1 x

50% --> 27 µ
99% --> 50 µ

Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Best regards
i expect 616/617 filters, regardless of the manufacturer are probably built to filter at similar efficiencies.

IMHO - considering these efficiencies, it's even more amazing that so many 617 engines are running strong for 500,000 to 1,000,000 miles without rebuilds.

cheers!
This filter has a Nominal rating of 27µ and an Absolute rating of 50µ

Diesel911 05-01-2008 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hangit (Post 1769649)
What about the Gold NAPA brand filters? I thought they were made by WIX.

John
Yes.
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index.asp
Type in a NAPA number and see.

Diesel911 05-01-2008 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonlite (Post 1769849)
I just recieved this from Mahle.

This type of oil filter, which is comprised of pleated paper (upper half) and cotton depth type media (lower half) is rated at 22 microns nominal on the pleated paper media. The depth type media because of it's design and material will generally be a finer filter.


I'm on the fence between Mahle and a Turkish Fram
A Nominal rating 22 microns means it filters %50 of the 22 or larger microns on the first pass through the oil filter.None of the companies that use raw cotton in the by-pass portion of their filters have been able or willing to tell us a micron rating for that portion of their filters. I find it odd that their quality control would never test this part and have some idea how it what it can do?????

Diesel911 05-01-2008 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdanielson (Post 1770926)
You've made two critical mistakes here. One is assuming it is not a good idea for the oil going through the upper portion of the filter to go back to the pan. It was engineered that way for a reason and results in better filtering than simply passing all the oil through the filter once on its way into the engine. Oil is recirculated many times through the upper section and returned to the pan resulting in cleaner oil before it gets pumped into the engine. That's why the upper part of the filter is a finer filter than the bottom part. The bottom part of the filter is more coarse because it expects to receive pre-cleaned oil. Disabling the bypass filtration will result in much dirtier oil.

Secondly just because you blocked the return passage for the bypass does not force more oil into the engine. The oil filter has two sections separated by a seal and disabling flow back into the oil pan simply disables the bypass and doesn't put more oil into the lubrication system.

Read section 18-005 of the service manual for a description of how the oiling system works and then Google 'bypass oil filter' and read up on the concept. This document http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/PollutionPrevention/upload/bypass-oil-filters-fact-sheet.pdf does a good job of explaining the concept. Mercedes was nice enough to put a fantastic filtering system on your engine that is only offered as an expensive aftermarket add-on for other engines. Don't modify it without fully understanding what you are doing.

I have nothing plugged off in any part of my lubricating system.p>Later I did install a by-pass filter and I did drill through the center of the fuel filter cap and tap the oil from there that would normally go into the crankcase. Even then I did not not have to plug off the stem to divert the oil as there is a check valve in the stem that has a strong enough spring in it I did not have to plug it off to get the oil to go to the by- pass filter.
I added this later: I did not realize that this was an old thread!!!!


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