Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I posted something about a neighbor saying her 240d is slow climbing big hills, and the replies nearly started a war about torque and HP, etc.

There were some 50 replies, but after reading even the 1st one, I realized I should have made something more clear. The replies thought I was talking about a highway, where you're already moving at 60mph or more. That's not the case. We're talking about an intown hill, 240d automatic, from a dead stop at a traffic light there, immediately preceeding the hill. (Roswell Rd., just north of the Chattahoochie river). It's not a mountain, but a long (maybe 1/2 mile) pretty fair grade for Atlanta, from a dead stop on level surface, then up the hill. She has to get in the slow lane with blinkers on, while cars pass her.

Now, that all spelled out, is that normal for a 240d, or is there something wrong with her car? Seems the Germans would have made something that could take even their alps without having to get out and push, let alone an Atlanta hill.

Thanks,

Jeff

I imagine that it being unable to climb that hill from a standstill is probably pretty normal. Mine can barely climb a straightaway at sea level at a good pace from a standstill.

__________________
1983 Mercedes-Benz 240D
Automatic, A/C, Power Sunroof, Power Right Side Mirror
231K Miles FOR SALE MAKE OFFER

Are you talking about a stick or automatic? That will probably make a huge difference.

I have a 240 4-speed and live over 1 mile above sea level. I can easily climb any hill from a standing start. The only problem is that on really steep hills I have to keep it in third gear at about 50 mph because it will slow down when I shift into 4th.

I've even climbed Sandia Crest which is over 10,600 feet in elevation without any problems. Your friend probably has a clogged tank screen or filters.

Scott

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Scott
1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000
1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000)
1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold)
1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold)
1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!)
1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold)
1995 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold)
1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.)
1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold)
1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold)

The problem is the same as we discussed on the other thread.

The engine has limited power for acceleration. Compound this with a grade and the vehicle will climb the hill.........but, it won't be able to accelerate very well in the process.

The vehicles that pass the 240D typically have 200 hp or more. There is ample power for acceleration and climb. The 240D simply doesn't have this available.

I'm not arguing that the 240 isn't slow. What he's describing just sounds a lot worse than normal. If a car wants to pass me it can, easily. However, I usually do just fine climbing hills. I even pass people sometimes Maybe his friend has an automatic and I can't speak to those. My guess still is that there is a fuel delivery problem. My tank screen was clogged when I first got my 240 and it would barely accelerate up hills or even achieve a reasonable speed.

Scott

__________________
Scott
1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000
1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000)
1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold)
1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold)
1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!)
1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold)
1995 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold)
1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.)
1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold)
1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold)

I rode around in a 240D, and I didn't think it seemed that bad. I didn't drive it though.

He basically had to rev it to the max in 1st gear just to keep up with traffic, but hey I think that's how they were intended to be driven.

__________________
1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

It does sound like this 240D has something abnormal going on. My auto 240D is slow, but it can certainly handle normal hills and keep up with traffic on secondary roads, it just stays in lower gears longer, that's at about 6000 feet.

I've never owned one. I can only go by the specifications. Folks reflect on the vehicle being "slow". Others comment on how it does "just fine".

From an engineering perspective, none of this drivel is relevant. The vehicle has a specific factory acceleration time from 0-60 on level ground. If the engine is mechanically suspect due to fuel restriction, a simple 0-60 test will confirm or deny this fact. The aspect of climbing a hill (of uncertain length and unknown grade) simply adds a another variable for pondering.

Anyone who is comfortable with a 200 hp gasser will complain bitterly about the acceleration characteristics of a 240D, when, in reality, the vehicle is performing perfectly. It's related to expectations more than actual performance.

Oh, a few people asked if it's a 4 speed or automatic, and it's an automatic. I edited the post to reflect that just now.

jeff

That, is probably the best response I've read yet.

__________________
1983 Mercedes-Benz 240D
Automatic, A/C, Power Sunroof, Power Right Side Mirror
231K Miles FOR SALE MAKE OFFER

I doubt that her car is performing normally.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

This conversation has too many variables. When my wagon (617 turbo) is cold, I CANNOT turn left out of my driveway and climb the hill with any hope of acceleration at all. Warm it is a different matter. I suspect the gradient is a lot more than 7%, but I am not going to GUESS!

Depending on whether this lady has her car maintained, drives on the highway at least occasionally to "clean it out", whether this hill is before her car is warmed up or after, all these things could be part of the equation. If she never gets the heat high and sustained, all the maintenance in the world won't help her acceleration; these cars don't like all short trips, all the time.

I don't think I could take my wagon to San Francisco. I KNOW that there are some hills I would not expect the wagon to get out of its own way WITHOUT a significant headstart to get at least close to peak horsepower. Or really ripping into my clutch. I would guess a 240 should stay away from hills at slow speeds or from a stop, like someone said.

We know nothing about the state of her tranny!

I drove a 240 stick from NYC to Boston (84, hilly, 90, less so) and never had to put the blinkers on, kept it up between 65 and 75 (really loud at 75, otherwise I would have stayed there!) and don't remember losing speed below 55 or 60.


but my memory is a BIG variable!

__________________
Peter
1985 300TD 4-speed 212K
1992 400E 343K
2001 E320 72K

You think maybe they have no hills in Germany?

The gears are there for a reason. If the hill is steep you hold the lower gears as long as necessary.

There should be no normal roads that a 240 cannot make reasonable progress on. YOu think a semi has a better power to weight ration than a 240?

absolutely no way.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I climb some pretty steep hills in New Mexico and I've probably got about a 20% horsepower drop at my elevation. My car is probably only putting out around 50 hp out here given the elevation and wear from high mileage. I have never put on my emergency blinkers and pulled into the slow lane. Even in third gear I can pull the steepest hills with no problem. Its no speed demon but 50 mph in third is not a problem.

Scott

__________________
Scott
1982 Mercedes 240D, 4 speed, 275,000
1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (70,000)
1987 Porsche 911 Coupe 109,000 (sold)
1998 Mercedes E300 TurboDiesel 147,000 (sold)
1985 Mercedes 300D 227,000 (totaled by inattentive driver with no insurance!)
1997 Mercedes E300 Diesel 236,000 (sold)
1995 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1987 VW Jetta GLI 157,000 (sold)
1986 Camaro 125,000 (sold - P.O.S.)
1977 Corvette L82 125,000 (sold)
1965 Pontiac GTO 15,000 restored (sold)

There really is no discussion of the capability of the vehicle at 50 mph. The horsepower requirements for moving air aside and for climbing are significantly reduced. Furthermore, if you use third gear, you've got the engine turning very close to 4000 rpm.........right at it's rated power.

The discussion is that small 15 mph difference between 50 mph and 65 mph where third gear is not available and the rise in horsepower requirements is significant.