Aluminum flakes in oil. What's about to blow? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

vwnut84 · #1 02-22-2010, 09:51 AM

I tried a search and came up with nothing, so I figured I'd post.

I just did an oil change on my '85 190d with the 601.921 2.2l. I went ahead and drained the oil and changed the filter as usual, and everything looked ok. I always make sure to look in the filter housing as well to see if all is clean. So this morning I still had the old filter laying around, so I decided to take it apart and look inside. I didn't like what I found, a bunch of very very small (about 1mm if that) shavings of aluminum. There is no unusual noise from the engine, except for a sticky lifter every so often. Oil pressure is always at 3 bar above 1k rpms, but the gauge does flutter when warm around 2bar, i attributed this to a sticky gauge as sometimes it needs a tap in the morning to get going.

So I was just wondering if anyone else has seen this, I'm hoping it's normal to a degree, but I'm sure it's probably not. Thoughts? Thanks!!!

vstech · #2 02-22-2010, 09:54 AM

I gotta agree with you that it cannot be a good sign... there are soo many aluminum moving parts in there, it'd be hard to internet diagnose the cause.
what oil are you using? how long has the oil been in there?

vwnut84 · #3 02-22-2010, 10:08 AM

Oil was rotella 5w-40 synthetic, in there for about 5,500 miles.

I just took the rest of the filter apart and did not find any more flakes, but even this tiny amount I'm a little un-easy about.

What is made of aluminum in these engines? Oviously the head, but is the Vac pump or anything else made from it?

whunter · #4 02-22-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnut84

I tried a search and came up with nothing, so I figured I'd post.

I just did an oil change on my '85 190d with the 601.921 2.2l. I went ahead and drained the oil and changed the filter as usual, and everything looked OK. I always make sure to look in the filter housing as well to see if all is clean. So this morning I still had the old filter laying around, so I decided to take it apart and look inside. I didn't like what I found, a bunch of very very small (about 1mm if that) shavings of aluminum. There is no unusual noise from the engine, except for a sticky lifter every so often. Oil pressure is always at 3 bar above 1k rpms, but the gauge does flutter when warm around 2bar, i attributed this to a sticky gauge as sometimes it needs a tap in the morning to get going.

So I was just wondering if anyone else has seen this, I'm hoping it's normal to a degree, but I'm sure it's probably not. Thoughts? Thanks!!!

STOP.
Do not drive the car any more, until this issue is diagnosed.

My best guess from supplied data:

* The vacuum pump is failing = about to take out the timing chain.

* The oil pump is failing = your cylinder head is not getting enough lube.

vstech · #5 02-22-2010, 10:22 AM

pretty much everything is aluminum. the pistons, the water pump, the head, the vacuum pump, etc. there is steel in there, for sure, bearings and such, but it's not certain you have aluminum flakes either, it could be babbit, from the bearings, or other metals. you might wanna inspect your vacuum pump. i hear they can grenade on you.

vwnut84 · #6 02-22-2010, 10:40 AM

I'm certian it's aluminum, the flakes are not magnetic

I'm over reacting a little about the quantity, It was about 20 1mm sized flakes. Still, not great. Well ****. Guess it's back to driving the rabbit.

vstech · #7 02-22-2010, 10:59 AM

babbit is not magnetic, nor is brass, stainless steel, chrome, etc...
the most likely source of aluminum is piston skirts.
the most likely source of metal flakes is bearing material, which would be non magnetic babbit...

vwnut84 · #8 02-22-2010, 11:03 AM

Ahhhhh gotcha. What exactly is "Babbit"? I've never heard about it.

Well, I'm on the fence as to what to do about this now, the car is running fine, and I don't want to get rid of it, but I also A)can't afford an engine teardown and B) Don't need a breakdown 200 miles from home. (I do a ton of long distance driving).

There really is no way of telling what this material is short of sending it out is there?

Thank you for the prompt replies, this has been the best Mercedes forum I've been on yet.

whunter · #9 02-22-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnut84

Ahhhhh gotcha. What exactly is "Babbit"? I've never heard about it.

Well, I'm on the fence as to what to do about this now, the car is running fine, and I don't want to get rid of it, but I also A)can't afford an engine teardown and B) Don't need a breakdown 200 miles from home. (I do a ton of long distance driving).

There really is no way of telling what this material is short of sending it out is there?

Thank you for the prompt replies, this has been the best Mercedes forum I've been on yet.

Your diagnostic starting point is:

Remove the vacuum pump, and inspect for damage.

This is an easy DIY, and they are known to fail..

vwnut84 · #10 02-22-2010, 11:31 AM

I'm going to pull the pump out tonight. I looked in the manual and I don't see anything about releasing the tension for the timing chain, so can I assume that I just unbolt the 5 or so bolts the pump is held on by and it comes off?

vstech · #11 02-22-2010, 11:44 AM

ok, lemme point out something about this forum.
there are two very very very knowledgeable members, and if they grace your post with a response DO IT!
one is Brian Carlton,
the other is WHunter (ROY)
They absolutely positively know what they are talking about.

4x4_Welder · #12 02-22-2010, 12:00 PM

Are there any known timing chain whipping issues with the engines? I know of the OHC chain driven Toyota and Mazda engine if you see aluminum in the oil it's typically because the timing chain is all stretched out and hitting the timing case.

vwnut84 · #13 02-22-2010, 12:46 PM

No issues with chain noises. I'm going to go with Roy's starting point with the vacuum pump and go from there.

4x4_Welder · #14 02-22-2010, 01:01 PM

Sounds like a good way to go-

leathermang · #15 02-22-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

... there are two very very very knowledgeable members,
They absolutely positively know what they are talking about.

What am I ? Chopped Liver ?
I was going to mention the babbit potentially looking like aluminum but was 2 hours late seeing this thread. In the old days ( model T for instance) the actual bearing surface of the connecting rod where it meets the crankshaft was made of this alloy of lead ( I think offhand bismuth and antimony may be the other main ingredients ) ...it was cast into the end of the rod and cap then machined to the correct size... our present day bearings are a much improved situation for automobiles being made up of combinations of metals which both allow harmful particles to embed themselves in the material to keep it from scoring the crank throw ( for example) and provides layers of things like copper for long lasting wear. Even today some very large motors, generators and metal lathes use cast babbit for their bearings..Properly scored for oil lubrication it has the potential for lasting a long time and spreading the load over a very wide surface. It is still available in a couple of hardnesses... I believe Nickle is added to the harder one if needed.

While the pistons are aluminum the potential for them having shavings come off is very small...

So I suggest you investigate the vacuum pump first.

LOL