'87 190d turbo 5-speed conversion - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shingleback · #16 11-28-2007, 09:54 PM

Different tire sizes; 2.3-16 had 205/55-15 and 2.5T had 185/65-15, although the rolling size difference is only 2.5%.

dave1980_300sd · #17 11-28-2007, 11:21 PM

that does sound like it'd be nice. I'll have to start prowling the junkyards for a 16v diff. after diving mine as-is the last week or so, I have to admit it is a bit tall for everyday use. Especially just driving around brooklyn... however, this setup is great for the highway. Again, though, I find I'm rarely able to really use 5th without fear of getting a ticket.

- dave

gsxr · #18 11-29-2007, 04:46 PM

Dave, it may be hard to find a 190E-16 diff locally. However, Nationwide Auto Recycling (866-534-0477) in Lancaster, MA claims to have one for $200. Just make sure that it's really from a 16V... there should be a metal tag on one of the lower rear cover bolts, indicating that it's limited slip. (The tag has German text that translates into something like "use only special limited-slip gear oil".

Here's the correct OE/dealer fluid to use for a factory limited-slip diff, if you get the 16v diff (p/n 001-989-17-03-10). It's about $25/liter (list price) and you'll need 1.1 liters:

migtek02 · #19 04-23-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Dave, it may be hard to find a 190E-16 diff locally. However, Nationwide Auto Recycling (866-534-0477) in Lancaster, MA claims to have one for $200. Just make sure that it's really from a 16V... there should be a metal tag on one of the lower rear cover bolts, indicating that it's limited slip. (The tag has German text that translates into something like "use only special limited-slip gear oil".

Here's the correct OE/dealer fluid to use for a factory limited-slip diff, if you get the 16v diff (p/n 001-989-17-03-10). It's about $25/liter (list price) and you'll need 1.1 liters:

Im looking for info on a diff for a W201. I have a 190 undergoing surgery (its getting a new heart!) I need to know how much tq/hp the 190d/190E 16v diffs can handle?

gsxr · #20 04-24-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migtek02

Im looking for info on a diff for a W201. I have a 190 undergoing surgery (its getting a new heart!) I need to know how much tq/hp the 190d/190E 16v diffs can handle?

Mercedes upgraded to the larger 210mm diff when the engine power exceeded approximately 210-220 lb-ft of torque. The M103 engine with 177hp was the most powerful motor put in front of the smaller 185mm diff from the 16v.

However, the Finns have been building diesel SuperTurbos for years, and funneling enormous amounts of power through the 185mm 16v diff. As a very rough estimate, I'd think it should survive up to about 300hp/300tq, at least for street use. Beyond that, a 210mm diff would be a smart upgrade. I would run the 16v diff until it blows up, and then uprgade if/when that happens.

I don't know how difficult it is to install the 210mm diff in a 201 chassis, or if it's even possible, but I think it should be possible with some custom fabrication. Remember that the 16v diff is geared pretty low (3.27:1) so the engine will be screaming on the freeway if you don't have an overdrive tranny.

chuni959 · #21 04-24-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

I don't know how difficult it is to install the 210mm diff in a 201 chassis, or if it's even possible, but I think it should be possible with some custom fabrication.

im pretty sure its been done. It involves swapping ring gears from the 124 housing into the 201 housing. And input flange i would imagine

gsxr · #22 04-25-2009, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuni959

im pretty sure its been done. It involves swapping ring gears from the 124 housing into the 201 housing. And input flange i would imagine

The 210mm gears are physically too large to fit into a 185mm housing. And the 201 never came from the factory with anything larger than a 185mm housing. Perhaps someone has fit a complete 210mm housing into a W201 chassis, which may be possible (and what I was referring to above)... but the axles & driveshaft could possibly need to be shortened. Which goes back to my opinion of "run it 'till it blows up", lol... the 185mm could last a long time.

2.5-10 · #23 06-24-2009, 07:01 PM

man, every time I see a 2.5T with a manual I get jealous!

when you start the job, how do you get at the tranny bolts? I have to be missing something there...

if I have the brake pedal assy. from the 8V gasser can I just hook up wires from my automatic pedal?

do I have to take the speedometer out of the 8V donor to get an acurate speed reading, or is that all in the diff?

do the motor mounts need to be loosened?

does the 8V gas flywheel weigh less than the 2.2/2.5diesel M/T wheels?

I am familiar with a pilot bearing being needed, but where is the throwout bearing (forgive the noobness I have never changed a clutch) and why would it not already be on the donor trans?

are new bolts needed to secure the flywheel to the crank on the OM602.961? tq spec? thread locker?

so many questions, so little time

klaus kallas · #24 06-24-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5-10

man, every time I see a 2.5T with a manual I get jealous!

when you start the job, how do you get at the tranny bolts? I have to be missing something there...

if I have the brake pedal assy. from the 8V gasser can I just hook up wires from my automatic pedal?

do I have to take the speedometer out of the 8V donor to get an acurate speed reading, or is that all in the diff?

do the motor mounts need to be loosened?

does the 8V gas flywheel weigh less than the 2.2/2.5diesel M/T wheels?

I am familiar with a pilot bearing being needed, but where is the throwout bearing (forgive the noobness I have never changed a clutch) and why would it not already be on the donor trans?

are new bolts needed to secure the flywheel to the crank on the OM602.961? tq spec? thread locker?

so many questions, so little time

Answers in order, more or less:

Drop the rear tranny crossmember and let the engine rest against the firewall. Get about 3 feet worth of socket extensions (Harbor Freight is our friend!!) and they are quite easy to reach from underneath the car.

Pedal assembly is a complete bolt in and your brakelight switch should be the same. The wires going to the neutral safety switch will have to be looped back to themselves ( 2 purple wires if I recall correctly) for the car to start. You could get creative and wire them to the clutch switch, but as they seem to be grounded opposite, it may take some trial and error.

As long as both cars have 15" tires, speedometer should be fine.

Motor mounts do not need to be loosened.

Flywheel is different, but I have never had an issue in the 2 201's and the 1 124 I have done. All 190e 2.3 donors to diesel engines.

I would recommend new bolts for the flywheel as they are stretch style. 30 newton meters initial then 90 degrees final torque. Thread lock, sure. Can't hurt.

Hope this helps! I've converted all my cars in a weekend. Really is down right easy, especially if you have a donor car handy.

Klaus

2.5-10 · #25 06-24-2009, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by klaus kallas

Answers in order, more or less:

Drop the rear tranny crossmember and let the engine rest against the firewall. Get about 3 feet worth of socket extensions (Harbor Freight is our friend!!) and they are quite easy to reach from underneath the car.

Pedal assembly is a complete bolt in and your brakelight switch should be the same. The wires going to the neutral safety switch will have to be looped back to themselves ( 2 purple wires if I recall correctly) for the car to start. You could get creative and wire them to the clutch switch, but as they seem to be grounded opposite, it may take some trial and error.

As long as both cars have 15" tires, speedometer should be fine.

Motor mounts do not need to be loosened.

Flywheel is different, but I have never had an issue in the 2 201's and the 1 124 I have done. All 190e 2.3 donors to diesel engines.

I would recommend new bolts for the flywheel as they are stretch style. 30 newton meters initial then 90 degrees final torque. Thread lock, sure. Can't hurt.

Hope this helps! I've converted all my cars in a weekend. Really is down right easy, especially if you have a donor car handy.

Klaus

superb!, do you recall what size bolt heads are on the trans? I have a million billion 3/8 socket extensions, but not many 1/2"ers

do I remove the bolts from the flex disc before I drop the tranny brace?

where is the speedo cable, how do I remove it, and is the install the same deal with the 5MT?

should I get flywheel bolts for a diesel 5-speed? or can I use new automatic ones for the 2.5DT?

dont suppose you have many pics of any of your swaps on hand?

does the automatic car already have neutral start wires?

is it difficult to bleed the clutch, I've never done it? haha

oh boy, I'm sure I have a lot of questions in adition... but this is making me feel like I (of all people) could actually pull this off

Thanks for your answers, finally someone who has actually done it still responds to wanna-be's!

klaus kallas · #26 06-25-2009, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5-10

superb!, do you recall what size bolt heads are on the trans? I have a million billion 3/8 socket extensions, but not many 1/2"ers

do I remove the bolts from the flex disc before I drop the tranny brace?

where is the speedo cable, how do I remove it, and is the install the same deal with the 5MT?

should I get flywheel bolts for a diesel 5-speed? or can I use new automatic ones for the 2.5DT?

dont suppose you have many pics of any of your swaps on hand?

does the automatic car already have neutral start wires?

is it difficult to bleed the clutch, I've never done it? haha

oh boy, I'm sure I have a lot of questions in adition... but this is making me feel like I (of all people) could actually pull this off

Thanks for your answers, finally someone who has actually done it still responds to wanna-be's!

Once again, answers in order

:

Bolts on the tranny are 17mm. 3/8 drive will work just fine. Also, pick up a swivel adapter and be sure it is good quality as you will have to put some serious torque on the tranny bolts to break them loose.

Front driveshaft and disc will have to come out. You will need to replace it with the one from the 5 speed donor anyway as it will be about 4 inches too short after the manual is installed.

Speedo cable is a 10mm bolt which faces the rear of the tranny on the pass. side. Must be unscrewed and removed all the way for the cable to slide out. Just hook the cable out of the way, as you can install it right into the manual once it is in.

Flywheel bolts are the same for both cars.

Sorry, no pics. Wife would kill me if I took the camera into the garage!!!

Your automatic has a wiring harness that runs to the tranny. You will need to get out the test light and find which one has power in the run position and loop it back to the other same color wire in the harness. I seem to remember there are 4 wires. The 2 purple are the neutral start wiring and the 2 green will run to your back up light switch (which you will need rewire, no big deal). I could have those colors reversed, so be sure to check first!!

Clutch is just like bleeding brakes, but it does take awhile.

You can pull this off. It is not hard for shade tree mechanics (like myself!). There are some other things you will need, but I have to go to work right now. I will post later.

Klaus

2.5-10 · #27 06-25-2009, 01:15 PM

thats all tremendously helpful, thank you!

if my backup lights dont work currently, I wonder if its a fuse, or if I should not even bother with the manual one, haha.

I have an 8V donor trans, clutch, flywheel, 2 of the 3 shift linkages, interior shifter cage, clutch pedal assy, brake pedal assy (if i need it) ill have to go to MBZ to get a pilot bearing, and a throwout bearing if the current clutch doesnt have one.

I have a pretty beefy 3/8" u-joint, and a 17mm so I should be ok there

I just keep a camera in the shop, completely seperate from the one me lady knows about

man, I am seriously excited to maybe actually get this done! this OM602 needs a stick so bad! this automatic is such a dim-wit!

Jetmugg · #28 06-25-2009, 02:39 PM

I have done this swap to 2 190D 2.5 Turbos in the last few years. I'm driving one of them today. You will not be sorry.

If you don't already have it, you will need the tranny crossmember from a manual-trans car as well. They mount in a different position than the auto trans cars.

Depending on your driving style and terrain, you may want to consider a rearend swap as well. The 2.65 ratio which came from the factory in the 2.5 Turbos is VERY TALL when combined with the overdrive 5-speed. If you can score a "diesel" 5-speed from an early 2.2D, the ratios are a little lower, but not much.

I'm currently running a 2.88 rearend in my daily driver, but I am seriously thinking of swapping in a 3.07 from a 300E.

klaus kallas · #29 06-25-2009, 02:59 PM

As Jetmugg stated above, you will need the crossmember from the 5-speed car. The holes are already in the subframe for either tranny mounting, but you will need to slide the nuts forward in the frame to meet up with the manual crossmember (sounds odd, but it will be clear when you are looking at it).

I agree, the 2.65 gearing is WAY tall. My 300D 2.5 still has that diff. but will soon swap it out with a 3.07 from a 300E 2.6. Currently, it will cruise at around 1800 rpms at 70 and the engine seems to lug so I rarely put it in 5th. Take off is quite the challenge, especially on a grade

Not quite sure if there are other options for the 190 diffs ??

Fairly easy project overall and the joy you feel while pulling all the soon-to-be useless tranny cooler lines, kick-down, etc. and throwing them in a pile is hard to beat.

Jetmugg · #30 06-25-2009, 03:51 PM

Speaking of kick-down brackets - I am also converting an '86 300E to a 2.5 Turbo / automatic trans. The car is for a friend, whose wife doesn't drive a stickshift.

I need the "kickdown" bracketry/linkage which bolts to the passenger's side of the cylinder head. (I foolishly tossed out the brackets from 2 previous engines). I need the pivoting portion and the "tie rod" that goes to the throttle linkage. Does anyone have this bracketry which they would be willing to sell to me?

SteveM.