'87 190d turbo 5-speed conversion - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dave1980_300sd · #1 11-20-2007, 02:26 PM

Hi everyone,

I just thought I'd document the auto / standard swap I did over the weekend on my '87 190d turbo. I'll try to keep this succinct but without leaving anything out...

From a 190e parts car:

- 5 spd manual transmission and crossmember
- driveshaft
- pedal assembly including clutch master cylinder
- hydraulic line between master and slave cylinders
- shifter assembly
- clutch, pressure plate, slave cylinder (relatively recently replaced and still in very good shape)

Bought used:
- 190d manual transmission flywheel

Bought new:
- 190d manual pilot bearing and throwout bearing (same part nos. as the 190e manual)

Ended up wishing I had grabbed from the parts car:
- reverse light switch for the manual shifter assembly
- underdash trim panel (with slot for the clutch pedal)
- clip or whatever it is that actuates the brake light switch on the manual car's brake pedal... it must have fallen off when I pulled the pedal assembly? it's apparently different than the little bracket on the automatic's brake pedal).

I removed the automatic from the car (easier said than done... the bellhousing bolts were wicked tight. needed a bunch of extensions too). Removed the automatic flywheel / flex plate, and took it and the manual flywheel to machine shop, where I was told they were both neutrally balanced. installed the pilot bearing in the end of the crank... it went in no problem. created a clutch alignment tool out of a 19mm socket, a deep 10mm socket, and some masking tape (I'd forgotten to buy one) and installed clutch disc and pressure plate.

removed automatic pedal assembly. noticed manual pedal assembly had nothing to actuate the brake light switch; it must be different and I must have forgotten it. ground the little bracket off of the automatic pedal and welded it to the manual pedal. cut the bundle of wires running through the hole in the tranny tunnel to the neutral safety switch; jump the two fatter wires together so the car will be able to start later. installed hydraulic clutch line through pre-existing hole used for aforementioned wires, bolted it up to clutch master, ran rubber hose through pre-existing hole up to brake fluid reservoir. attached this to the master cylinder inlet, then bolted up pedal assembly. Cut tip off of pre-existing clutch line outlet on the brake fluid reservoir and attached rubber hose leading to clutch master. realized that the brake light switch is different between manual and automatic pedal assemblies; create adapter by taking apart automatic switch and soldering some wires to it.

took a look at the diveshafts, realized it'd be easiest to use the existing rear half since they appeared to be the same length. found alignment humps per Haynes manual and put front half of manual driveshaft onto existing rear half of driveshaft.

wrestled 5 speed underneath and into the car. apparently homemade clutch alignment tool worked fine. Bolt up transmission (again, easier said than done). attach slave cylinder and bleed using mightyvac (had no helper to assist with Haynes manual recommended brake-to-clutch bleeding), which worked fine. attach driveshaft to transmission. install shifter assembly and attach to shift rods. re-install misc. stuff like exhaust bracket, speedo cable, etc. test drive car; hey, it works! lick wounds.

remaining problems: right now I have no reverse lights... the other two wires that ran to the neutral safety switch (the thinner wires) need to run to a switch that will trip when the car is in reverse. I failed to grab this part off of the parts car, but it must be next to the shifter assembly. I also have no underdash panel on the driver's side. I'm planning on modifying mine with a dremel when I have time. lastly, when I welded the little bracket onto the brake pedal, I miscalculated and put it a little too far towards the firewall. it was not contacting the switch even when the brake was all the way up. adjusting the switch all the way back solved this, but just barely. it would be much better to get the actual assembly that actuates this switch on the 5-speed cars when pulling parts.

The car drives great, much faster and more fun than before. I haven't changed the differential yet, so 5th gear is absurdly long... 75mph = 1900 rpm in 5th. It's still quick off the line though. I'll probably keep this diff since I'd rather not deal with the hassle of having my speedometer recalibrated.

anyway, hope this helps someone. I'll try to edit and clean this up a bit later, and post some pics. sadly I didn't take any during the swap itself... I was too cold to worry about such things (this was done in a drafty garage in CT in 35 degree weather).

- dave

winmutt · #2 11-20-2007, 03:36 PM

I missed out on a om603 at pull a part this last week, the whole engine could have been mine for $200. I am sure I could pick up a 190e with 5spd for under 1000. Sigh.

rrgrassi · #3 11-20-2007, 03:47 PM

So, I guess the starter bump was on the same side? I wish the w123 was like that!

winmutt · #4 11-20-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrgrassi

So, I guess the starter bump was on the same side? I wish the w123 was like that!

Ya all of the OM60X trannys mount. Gotta love it. No doubt in my mind a w201 is my next car to buy.

klaus kallas · #5 11-26-2007, 06:37 PM

Wow! Must have been something in the turkeys this year. I was out doing the same thing this weekend on one of my 2.2's!

Glad to hear all is well with your conversion!

Klaus

shingleback · #6 11-26-2007, 07:23 PM

Wow Klaus, are you trying to corner the black market in 190Ds? I wish I had the room for just one more!

klaus kallas · #7 11-27-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shingleback

Wow Klaus, are you trying to corner the black market in 190Ds? I wish I had the room for just one more!

Mine! They are all going to be mine!! (insert sound of maniacal laughter here)

Not sure why I have so many, just seem to run across them frequently and can't resist taking them home. Watch the For Sale section, may be thinning the herd soon....

Klaus

chuni959 · #8 11-28-2007, 02:00 PM

wow, something must REALLY be in the air! My 84 040 black 190d 2.2 just got here this morning. Its an auto, but its parked next to a 16v parts car with a full drive line/trans/pedals/shifter assy etc...
HRMMMM what should i do? hahahah

Hey, about your flywheel. I was just planning on using the 16v flywheel since they are both 4-cyls. I dont know if it even matters on a diesel, as they dont have spark plugs and i dont think they have a flywheel sensor anyways. Do you forsee a problem with this? Is there any special thing about a diesel flywheel compared to a non?

dave1980_300sd · #9 11-28-2007, 03:14 PM

I think they're the same dimensions, but the diesel one is possibly heavier. I came across a reference to that in the archives, but no one seemed sure. it should bolt up and work fine, but might be a little rougher idling I guess.

as far as the sensor goes, I noticed there is a sensor that reads the ring gear teeth on my 190d, but I'd assume that's for the tach? at any rate, it would read either flywheel the same. whatever it is, it doesn't have to do with ignition on the diesel, so I wouldn't sweat it.

- dave

chuni959 · #10 11-28-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1980_300sd

I think they're the same dimensions, but the diesel one is possibly heavier. I came across a reference to that in the archives, but no one seemed sure. it should bolt up and work fine, but might be a little rougher idling I guess.

as far as the sensor goes, I noticed there is a sensor that reads the ring gear teeth on my 190d, but I'd assume that's for the tach? at any rate, it would read either flywheel the same. whatever it is, it doesn't have to do with ignition on the diesel, so I wouldn't sweat it.

- dave

hrmm ok, so the diesels still have the flywheel sensor. Must be used for timing in some fashion on the 190ds. I wonder if the gas flywheel magnets are placed in the same arrangement with the diesel flywheel magnets. I just got out from under the car and the torque converter looks alot different than my 2.6 gassers. I wonder what all differences there are

shingleback · #11 11-28-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuni959

hrmm ok, so the diesels still have the flywheel sensor. Must be used for timing in some fashion on the 190ds. I wonder if the gas flywheel magnets are placed in the same arrangement with the diesel flywheel magnets. I just got out from under the car and the torque converter looks alot different than my 2.6 gassers. I wonder what all differences there are

Must be for the tach, as injection timing is done at the IP mounting flange.

If you have access to the EPC, compare part number for 2.3 flywheel and the 2.5 diesel engine flywheel. I have a funny feeling they are the same. I have been wondering about it too, but do not have access to EPC.

gsxr · #12 11-28-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1980_300sd

I haven't changed the differential yet, so 5th gear is absurdly long... 75mph = 1900 rpm in 5th. It's still quick off the line though. I'll probably keep this diff since I'd rather not deal with the hassle of having my speedometer recalibrated.

Nice job, Dave! Thanks for documenting the process. FYI, you can change the diff to a lower axle ratio, and use the speedometer head from a different 201 with the matching speedo head. The odometer is easy to re-set to match the original. That way you don't need to mess with re-calibrating the speedometer. FWIW, I would *not* use the factory ratio of 3.46:1 (yes, there was a 190D 2.5T 5-speed sold in Europe)... that's a little too low, IMO. I'd go with 3.07, or worst case, 3.27.

So for example, if you installed a 3.27 ratio (from a 190E-16, which is also limited-slip, a nice bonus) you would then use the speedometer from the donor 190E-16 car. It appears that finding a 3.07 in a W201 may be a little more of a challenge, but it's still doable.

ChinaClipper · #13 11-28-2007, 04:07 PM

to get the max torque @ the min speed for the kind of driving you do. If you live in San Francisco and drive up and down hills alot, a lower rear end would be great. If you drive fast like I do about 2500rpm @ 75mph is the sweet spot for the 87 2.5 NA. Makes a big difference....you current set up sound great for the Autobahn!

I know the Turbo/Auto and the N/A 5speed didn't have the same diff ratios

chuni959 · #14 11-28-2007, 04:09 PM

just out of curiosity, what ratio was the diff on the 2.2?

gsxr · #15 11-28-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuni959

just out of curiosity, what ratio was the diff on the 2.2?

I forget the ratio on the 2.2... once I saw that the 2.2 used the smaller 168mm gearset, I ignored them. The 2.5 Turbo and 190E-16 both use the 185mm gears from the 6-cyl and diesel W124's. The 185mm gears (and larger differential housing) are needed for the higher power output of the OM602.960 engine. I'm starting to think that the 190E-16 rear end would be perfect... 3.27 ratio, limited-slip, should be a complete bolt-in along with the speedo head (assuming the 190E-16 had the same tire size as the 2.5T... not sure about that.)