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  #16  
Old 11-22-2007, 11:05 AM
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Vice grips on the fuel line.

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  #17  
Old 11-22-2007, 11:10 AM
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So.... there is no limiter to the RPM?

I had thought it would run to red-line and the governor would hold it there. I remember a post by someone who ran around like crazy for a long time trying to shut it down and then called the fire department. So it didn't blow in seconds.... at least as they claimed it.
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2007, 11:19 AM
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Well, I knew I would get a little heat on that one

But guys, it is always in an emergency situation. And it you have it all planned out, use what took per the plan. Too often, these things happen unexpectedly. If that is the case, you won't have time to find a 2x4, a telephone book or a tennis ball. But it is safe, it will never take the skin off. Pump on vacuum with you Mity Vac with as large a hose as you can easily hook up. Put it against the skin of your hand and pump away. When you have a good vacuum, that is exactly the same pressure as what that engine intake produces. I think what you guys are fearful of is the noise and the possibility of flying parts. You won't have any flying parts if you jump on it right now with your hand - just as soon as your brain can react to the fact that you have a runaway engine. In an instant a runaway will be at red line and way more. I would say that by the time you pick up a 2x4 and get it it front of the intake, your engine is history. You decide. Don't ask your kid to do it. Don't even tell them about it.
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1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2007, 12:17 PM
TheDon's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGRED View Post
So.... there is no limiter to the RPM?

I had thought it would run to red-line and the governor would hold it there. I remember a post by someone who ran around like crazy for a long time trying to shut it down and then called the fire department. So it didn't blow in seconds.... at least as they claimed it.
the injection pump has an internal rev limiter set at.. 5100 rpms IIRC (I've had my 617 up to 5k before.. not all the time.. just once)

when the engine runs away on crank case gasses or oil.. there is no stopping it since its consuming an unmetered fuel source...


Some advice if you are dealing with a run away.. make sure no one is near the sides of the engine.. stay in the front of it. rotating parts like to exit the block to the left and right side, for the most part..

Its kinda hard to remember that in a situation like this but.. a little knowledge can save a life.
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2007, 12:38 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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Don't cut off the fuel, they can run on the oil in the crank if you do. Remove the cross over, start it, if it starts to run put a peice of wood over the intake and kill it.

I'd hold the wood near the intake and have a second person start the car.


99% chance nothing will happen, but that 1% will cost you $5k.
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  #21  
Old 11-23-2007, 01:52 AM
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throw water in the intake
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2007, 02:16 AM
ForcedInduction
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Originally Posted by babymog View Post
You know you're talking about a runaway, ... max. RPM or higher, not an idle.
I know it was about a runaway. Vacuum is atmosphere pressure pushing against lack of atmospheric pressure. At most it can pull on your hand is 14.7psi no matter if the engine is at idle or 10,000rpm. The larger the surface area it can pull against the more force is exerted.

It's like the myth of a bullet through an airplane window at 20,000'. Alot of people think it would suck you through the hole when in reality it would just be a light breeze at most. The imagination can exaggerate alot of things.
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  #23  
Old 11-23-2007, 09:40 AM
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The best way to overcome a fear is through verification.

So... starting with idle, next time I am working on the intake I try to shut it down via intake and then bring the rpm up and try it again.

Better to have some "hands on" experience with it rather than panic if it should surprise me.

But...

I assume you can stick your hand on the flexible fresh air supply because the check valve in the pan will prevent oil from being sucked up the line and into air cleaner?

Thanks
Don
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  #24  
Old 11-23-2007, 10:26 AM
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Yes, yes, water would stop it

Cervan "throw water in the intake" Sure would stop it, but it would take the head right off the engine and more. It definetly would be junk!
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Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!
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  #25  
Old 11-23-2007, 11:09 AM
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Dont use your hand, Its clear by this post that you have no idea about how pressure/vacuum act on an area. The area of your hand under the vacuum of a mitty vac, compared to a runaway over the inlet tube is a huge difference....

Its not about the actual pressure but the area that it acts over. ie PSI pounds per square inch. 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi, no biggie right... over 1 foot of area = 2116.8 lbs. or enough to crush you.

To sum up dont use your hand over the intake tube to stop a runaway..




Quote:
Originally Posted by junqueyardjim View Post
But guys, it is always in an emergency situation. And it you have it all planned out, use what took per the plan. Too often, these things happen unexpectedly. If that is the case, you won't have time to find a 2x4, a telephone book or a tennis ball. But it is safe, it will never take the skin off. Pump on vacuum with you Mity Vac with as large a hose as you can easily hook up. Put it against the skin of your hand and pump away. When you have a good vacuum, that is exactly the same pressure as what that engine intake produces. I think what you guys are fearful of is the noise and the possibility of flying parts. You won't have any flying parts if you jump on it right now with your hand - just as soon as your brain can react to the fact that you have a runaway engine. In an instant a runaway will be at red line and way more. I would say that by the time you pick up a 2x4 and get it it front of the intake, your engine is history. You decide. Don't ask your kid to do it. Don't even tell them about it.
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  #26  
Old 11-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icefire View Post
Its not about the actual pressure but the area that it acts over. ie PSI pounds per square inch. 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi, no biggie right... over 1 foot of area = 2116.8 lbs. or enough to crush you.
See my post #12.
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  #27  
Old 11-23-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
See my post #12.
I know, I read it, I just dont want a newb, to put his hand over the sharp intake tube and end up with some very nasty cuts.
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1984 Euro 300SDC, (4spd standard)
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Gone but not forgotten (some sold, some stripped)
1983 300 SD, 1985 300 SD, 1983 240D, 1986 300 SDL, 1985 300 SDL, 1983 300 D, 1984 300 D, 1985 300SD, 1987 300 SDL, 1983 300 SD, 1985 300 TD Euro, 1983 380SEC, 1990 300 D, 1987 300D, 1982 300D, 1982 300D, 1994 E420, 1987 300 TD, 1987 300 D, 1984 300 D
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  #28  
Old 11-23-2007, 11:45 AM
Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icefire View Post
I know, I read it, I just dont want a newb, to put his hand over the sharp intake tube and end up with some very nasty cuts.
Yup, I don't think it's enough force to pull your hand off or anything, but it would probably smart.
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  #29  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:32 PM
seo seo is offline
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The most important thing with a real lube-oil burning runaway or a broken-governor runaway is to keep the engine clutched-in against a load. This will prevent it throwing a rod. In a manual transmission car, put it in 4th and let the clutch out. This will kill the engine, and won't damage a good clutch. With an auto, put it in drive and stand on the brakes. This won't kill the engine, but will keep it from overspeeding.
If the runaway is caused by the governor not functioning, all that's needed to stop the engine is to crack the nuts on the fuel injectiion lines. When the engine is sucking lube oil up past its rings, you need to shut air off. I have done this on diesels by putting my hand over the intake. Once on a Volvo 70 I got a mild "Hickey" style hematoma on my palm. All things being equal, I'd rather have a bit of plywood cut in a round shape to fit the intake.
With a turbo-charged engine there may be some risk of creating so much suction (partial vacuum) on the compressor side of the turbo that the oil seal might be damaged. I have not seen this happen on either KKK or Brown Boveri (ABB) turbos. A simple way to reduce the risk of this happening would be to cut a circle of plywood, and then drill a hole, maybe .75" in diameter. This would allow enough air in to prevent a very large suction, but would throttle the engine way down. Once the engine was gagging and spitting it could be put out of its misery by putting your thumb over the hole.
My main use of this technique is when working on fuel systems of boat engines, when I want to spin the engine to bleed injectors with minimal battery load. By blocking off the air intake the engine doesn't get any air to compress, and so spins quite merrily. I stumbled across this trick in 1979, and have used it ever since, and have never found any problem from it. Of course it would be nice to simply decompress the engine using a decompression lever, but they've gone out of style on most engines.
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  #30  
Old 11-23-2007, 06:59 PM
C Sean Watts's Avatar
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Famous last words of a redneck???

Hey, ya'll - watch this!!!!

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