240D 4-speed manual swap in 300CD - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Stevo · #46 12-17-2007, 04:04 PM

I reuse them, I broke one off tho

and had a friend weld a nut to the "stub"to get it out.

Nice pics. There were NO index marks on my crank (82, 616 out of an automatic car) or the f/w I used, so I just stuck them together and have no vibration up to top speed, well 70 mph anyway

Happy motoring

winmutt · #47 12-17-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavin_leslie

Speak to me about this.

Does the FSM actually say the flywheel bolts are torque to yeild? And if they do is there a spec that should be checked?

I did notice that the shank of the manual flywheel bolts are thicker than that of the automatic flywheel bolts. There are a fair number of flywheel bolts, lessening the individual load felt by each. The flywheel is of less weight than what would be offered stock lessening the outward forces being felt by the bolts(unless there is a 5cyl specific set of bolts).

Not to poo poo the FSM as it usually has the final word, but I have found that sometimes the information is er...overly protective?(not that this is a bad thing) The FSM for my mazda states clearly that the F2/F2T is an interferance engine. I have popped a timing belt and found that wasnt the case and others concur that it is not an interferance engine.

So what is my realworld exposure to danger in reusing the flywheel bolts? A little? A lot? Not to be concerned? dont take a chance OMGWTFBBQ!!? Just want to weigh the options.

SW...I swear to you, the seatcovers wernt my Idea

Gavin

The FSM does specify the torque units.

estod · #48 12-17-2007, 07:35 PM

Speaking of maintenance, remember to change the oil in the manny tranny every 10K. An old dealer mech told me to use ATF. I have used that, but now use Mobil 1 10-30 per Larry Bible. It seems to work fine. I still change it every 10K.

Stevo · #49 12-17-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estod

Speaking of maintenance, remember to change the oil in the manny tranny every 10K. An old dealer mech told me to use ATF. I have used that, but now use Mobil 1 10-30 per Larry Bible. It seems to work fine. I still change it every 10K.

Sounds like your intent on taking care of that 5 speed

gavin_leslie · #50 12-17-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winmutt

The FSM does specify the torque units.

Sorry, I meant if there was a spec for the amount of bolt stretch.

All bolts stretch from usage to a degree, some (like torque to yield bolts) are designed to stretch a certain length. Generally they are one use only bolts. They stretch to their prescribed length and then thats it, no more reuse. Some bolts though have a stretch limit. I was wondering, if the flywheel bolts were TTY perhaps there was a min/max length for them.

estod....10,000mi changes? Every 3 oil changes eh? That sounds reasonable, I can manage that. Currently the transmission has the finest In $1.19 ATF. After the clutch gets broken in in another 400mi Ill be swapping it out for a 50/50 mix of Redline MT90 and amsoil ATF. Its what I have around the house.

Gavin

winmutt · #51 12-17-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estod

Speaking of maintenance, remember to change the oil in the manny tranny every 10K. An old dealer mech told me to use ATF. I have used that, but now use Mobil 1 10-30 per Larry Bible. It seems to work fine. I still change it every 10K.

10-30? Not mobil1 synth atf?

t walgamuth · #52 12-18-2007, 12:30 AM

If the tranny is off the car I would go ahead and get and install the bolts. If it is all assembled I would probably not bother with it.

Tom W

t walgamuth · #53 12-18-2007, 12:40 AM

I have never heard of anybody changing tranny oil (stick even) at 10K miles.

I just checked the factory maintenance booklet from a 240d. It specifies changing the standard tranny oil at 5k miles and then every 15k to check and top off if necessary. Same for the diff.

No change is called for after the break in period.

If I buy a new to me 240 with a couple of hundred thou miles, I will change the standard tranny oil and the diff oil just on general principals.

Otherwise I just keep on driving them.

Of course, changing it every 10k will hurt nothing except your wallet a little and the environment a little, and you might wear out the threads on the plugs!

Tom W

winmutt · #54 12-18-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavin_leslie

Sorry, I meant if there was a spec for the amount of bolt stretch.

All bolts stretch from usage to a degree, some (like torque to yield bolts) are designed to stretch a certain length. Generally they are one use only bolts. They stretch to their prescribed length and then thats it, no more reuse. Some bolts though have a stretch limit. I was wondering, if the flywheel bolts were TTY perhaps there was a min/max length for them.

This isn't a head, I cant imagine the tolerances are that important. I think it has more to do with shearing as these are kind of soft imo.

gavin_leslie · #55 12-18-2007, 02:01 PM

Yes....I understand that this is not a head

I think I may have to make my own answers for my questions, please correct me if I am wrong.... The FSM does not indicate that the manual flywheel bolts are TTY. As such there is no stretch length spec. People have sheared bolts leaving them to believe that the bolts are "soft"(they are m10s and 8.8?). I have sheared bolts of all grades in M10(this is a push to me). The FSM, states that the bolts should be replaced. FSMs tend to be overly protective(Illustrated by me). The automatic flywheel bolts were reused as evidenced by tool marks on the heads(probably by the rebuilder that installed the replacement engine 10yrs ago). The bolts are in good condition(no rust/corrosion/galling) and although small they are numerous lessening the individual load on each

Using all of this to form a real world reality of what reusing the flywheel bolts is and as no one has indicated any obvious and outlying issues with reusing the flywheel bolts(other than the FSMs recomendation) I will be leaving the bolts in the car.

Again, much thanks.

Gavin

Stevo · #56 12-18-2007, 05:43 PM

Not wanting too make this thread into "how far out you can walk on thin ice" thing. but I believe the two bolts that hold on the calipers and the 12 bolts that hold the flex couplings together are all "use once". Theres probably other people out there that re use them

, NO?

charmalu · #57 12-18-2007, 09:00 PM

STEVO That`s a yes. well on the flex dics I use new ones, they come
In the box new. I just replaced my center support bearing and
took the driveline out. so had to disconnect the flex disc. when I fastened
things back up I used the same bolts.

On the brake calipers I use the same bolts. they seem stout enough to
be reused. I haven`t had any problems.

when I rotate the tires, Iam usually in there giving everything a visual.

so far, nothing has fallen off.

charlie

t walgamuth · #58 12-18-2007, 10:51 PM

On my 280e euro autocross car last time I had a wheel off I noticed that one of the rear caliper bolts was backed out about 1/8" The other bolt was holding it without complaint. This car runs all out for fifty feet and then brakes all out for another twenty feet (or substitute yards for the numbers). I don't recommend it but the bolts are pretty tough.

I disagree about the flywheel bolts working in shear. I believe they work in tension and the friction generated by them is what actually holds the flywheel in place.

Tom W

Stevo · #59 12-19-2007, 12:23 AM

I usually clean all threads with brake cleaner, hit em with air and use blue thread lock. that is on fasteners for calipers, F/W, clutch P/P, flex coupling etc...

t walgamuth · #60 12-19-2007, 06:56 AM

I use the red loctite but not a lot.

Tom W