Monark vs. Bosio nozzles - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Diesel911 · #16 12-21-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhanson

Can you suggest a source?

Where did you buy them from and what country were they made in?
Also many thanks for giving us a conclusion. Many people get there answers from this forum and we never hear from them again!!!

Diesel911 · #17 12-22-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhanson

Can you suggest a source?

http://www.stopshopanddrive.com/mercedes/mercedes.html

I would like to know of some other sources of Monark injector nozzles!!!

C Sean Watts · #18 12-23-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airedale2

Got my new nozzles(monark) in 2 days ago, and put them in yesterday. Wow. My car was a slug off the line with 267,000 miles. Not any more. Gets up and goes very quickly with very little throttle. Again, very quick off the line. The one thing i did not realize, is how small the nozzles actually are. Very quiet and very smooth. No smoke on acceleration that i can see. Car runs much quieter on the freeway and much,much smoother. Probably using half as much throttle to do the same. Also noticed transmission shifts much smoother than before also. Nozzles were packaged individually in a sealed hard plastic container with a lid and prelubricated. Immaculate machining. Glass finish on the nozzles. 125$ for a set of 5. One thing I noticed is that i a few different nozzles. Not to say that they are not set at the same pop pressures. Pintle tip is smaller than the head of a needle.
Would highly recommend these nozzles to any considering new nozzles.
Drive diesels from cats, detroits, and powerjokes.
Very noticeable improvement.
Best of all, $125 for a set.

and not to rain on your parade but I sell them for $19.70 each.

Diesel911 · #19 12-24-2007, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Sean Watts

and not to rain on your parade but I sell them for $19.70 each.

Hope you got my message. Let me know when they arrive an what the shipping will be to Long Beach, CA 90810-3530.

C Sean Watts · #20 12-24-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhanson

Can you suggest a source?

Hessianimports@bellsouth.net

C Sean Watts · #21 02-01-2008, 11:44 PM

They're here...nozzles, shims, springs, heat shields, a few new injectors and some nozzles and heat shields for VW 1.6L, also.

Held up in customs for two weeks.

C Sean Watts · #22 02-10-2008, 03:59 PM

What ever brand anyone decides on ...

This is from Monark Diesel's technical department. (I think I translated it all correctly)

TESTING AND ADJUSTING
Nozzle needle and body are lap fitted to each other and should never be mismatched.
Testing should be carried out with clean diesel fuel oil or test oil meeting ISO 4113.
NEVER USE GASOLINE FOR TESTING! EXPLOSION OR FIRE COULD RESULT.
Keep hands away from nozzle spray. It can penetrate deep into the skin and and destroy the tissues. Fuel oil in the blood stream can cause blood poisoning.

Clean all nozzles.
Remove special conservation oil completely from new nozzles by washing them in clean gasoline.
Clean used nozzles of soot and carbon and likewise wash in gasoline. Allow them to dry then dip nozzles in clean fuel oil and insert them into injector body.

Testing.
When assembling, hand center and tighten before tightening with a wrench. Cap nut torques: 'P' nozzle 30-50Nm, 'S' nozzle 50-90Nm, 'T' nozzle 80-100Nm (verify for your specific application)
Verify nozzle is not jammed by connecting to the tester with the gauge stopcock OFF.
Operate the pump lever several times, forcefully about 6-8 pumps per second. If the needle is not jammed, the nozzle should chatter with a shrill whistle. If not, loosen the cap nut, rotate the nozzle and tighten. NOTE: hole type nozzles (IE: SD 240) will not chatter like pintle type nozzles even when the lever is pumped quickly.

Opening (pop) pressure.
Pressure is specific to your engine. Adjust it accordingly. It is sometimes stamped on the injector body.
CAUTION: WHEN PRESSURE GAUGE IS BEING USED increase and decrease pressure slowly or gauge damage may result. Slowly increase the pressure until slight chattering, read indicated pressure. Turn adjusting screw or change shims as necessary. When the lever is operated slowly (1-2 pumps per second) all nozzles should spray/chatter. However, the spray need not be even or well atomized.

Leakage test.
Operate lever until gauge indicates 20 bar (285 psi) below specified pressure. The nozzle does not leak if no drop of fuel falls from the nozzle in 10 seconds.

Chatter and spray pattern.
Close the gauge stopcock. Spray pattern is observed when the lever is pumped rapidly (4-6 per second.)
The pattern for pintle and throttle nozzles should be even and well atomized. For hole type nozzles, full and finely atomized.

Cleanliness is essential when testing. The test area should be free of dust and dirt. Only use clean diesel fuel or test oil.
__________________

dawsonj3 · #23 04-05-2008, 05:52 PM

While I can't speak to the quality of Bosio Nozzles, I can speak to the quality of Monark nozzles. I just installed the DNOSD261 equivalent nozzles and WOW, what a difference in running quality!!! Seems like more power off the line, and quicker throttle response. Definitely idles more quietly. Has more of a diesel sound to it when accelerating - which I like. They were on sale at ************** for $99 (set of 5).

Having installed this nozzle version, I would not go back to the original DNOSD240/ Bosch nozzle.

Stevo · #24 04-05-2008, 06:08 PM

I'm very pleased with the performance of my "85" 240D after installing my injectors with "Monark" nozzles from C Sean Watts, quick, friendly service too. I will do it again

1985300d · #25 04-05-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawsonj3

I just installed the DNOSD261 equivalent nozzles and WOW, what a difference in running quality!!!

you are using the 261 nozzle?, why not the 265?, or did you mean 265 when u said "equivalent"

tobybul · #26 06-14-2008, 07:46 AM

http://www.monark.de/englisch/produktion.htm

definitely German

Diesel911 · #27 06-14-2008, 12:40 PM

What suprised me about the Monark nozzles is that when I pop-tested the injectors I found that all of the spray nozzles were uniformly good. My experience with Bosch nozzles when I worked if a fuel injection shop was that in a set of Bosch (all German back at that time) nozzles is that some would be good, some middling and some very marginal and the most would not make that chattering or squeaking that excellent nozzles make. Bosch actually changed their specs back then to say that their nozzles no longer had to make that sound (which is one of the indications of how well the pintel is seated in the nozzle) as long as the nozzle seats passed the leak test.
So I would not hesitate to get another set from Sean C Watts if I needed them.

tobybul · #28 06-14-2008, 11:59 PM

D911, do you think pop testing is absolutely necessary? I am thinking about getting a set of Monarks. I guess I can always try putting them in without pop testing and see if it performs properly... and if not then may be do the test.

What do you think?

Scott98 · #29 06-15-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

D911, do you think pop testing is absolutely necessary? I am thinking about getting a set of Monarks. I guess I can always try putting them in without pop testing and see if it performs properly... and if not then may be do the test.

What do you think?

You can get a pop tester here: http://www.**************.com. It even comes with a book explaining how to properly test the injectors. Some people have bad things to say about this site but I have never had a problem. In fact, I've had really good experiences buying used parts and other things. I actually just ordered their pop tester to do my injectors.

Scott

Diesel911 · #30 06-15-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

D911, do you think pop testing is absolutely necessary? I am thinking about getting a set of Monarks. I guess I can always try putting them in without pop testing and see if it performs properly... and if not then may be do the test.

What do you think?

Everybody has to make their own decisions on that; I say yes it is clearly best to have them pop tested when replacing the Spray Nozzle (and also to lap the internal precision surfaces before assembly).
Maybe I can explain it a little better.
There are a couple of things that happen as injectors are used. 1- The Pintel seating area in the spray nozzle wears out and they start to dribble raw/un-atomized fuel before their set pop/opening pressure is reached. 2- The tension in the spring inside of the injectors tends to weaken with use and when tested the pop/opening pressure is after many years of use lower than spec and they are not balanced between the set of injectors.
If you know the seat in the injector Spray Nozzle the is no good (you test for this on the pop tester). You will get improvement just by changing the Spray Nozzle (Diesel Giant has a how to do; do one nozzle at a time to keep the parts together for that nozzle). But the dimensions of the new Spray Nozzle may not be the same as the old one (especially Monark vs. Bosch) and this will change the tension on the spring in the injector. Meaning that the Pop/opening pressure of the nozzle will change and they will not be balanced between the other injectors (your injectors all could have different pop pressures; maybe out of spec; no way to tell without pop testing).
The pop/opening pressure of the nozzle also has an effect on your injection timing. Lower pressure injects the fuel sooner than a higher pressure.

Depending on my fanancial situation at the time I could see myself only changing the Spray Nozzle with out pop testing if my car was running poorly.
In my case when I bought a diesel car (Volvo) in 1992 I knew the injectors neededrebuilding and I bought a cheap ($150)Chinese Pop Tester right from the start. I figured a good part of the purchasecost of the pop tester would would be saved by not having to have 6 injectors rebuilt in a shop.